6 ms·

I avoid driving anywhere near Tesla’s, especially tailing them. Phantom braking is not okay.

George83728 3y ago
I treat them like semi-trucks on the highway. Pass them or let them pass you, but don't loiter alongside, behind or in front of one.
- bboygravity 3y ago
  I treat them like the safest cars to be around. Because statistically, they are?
  - viraptor 3y ago
    That's not proven as far as I know, unless you've got stats? (And not the stats from their website - those are not comparable)
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      > And not the stats from their website There is a reason it is said, "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." Statistically, there's a ~7% chance I won't die because ~7% of all humans who have ever lived haven't died.
  - adversaryIdiot 3y ago
    if you are on the inside at least... But yeah i think they tend to have better track records than human drivers.
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    There's a difference between safety and consistency.
  - belorn 3y ago
    According to statistics that Tesla publish. I would like to see mercedes publish their own statistics on their FSD. Given the tight constraints where they allow self driving, they could easily claim 100% safety record and thus infinitive more safe than any other manufacturer. It would be misleading, but statistically it would be the truth (any accidents could be said to be outside the constraint and thus will not count). Personally I would only really trust such statistics if insurance companies would reflect that in the premium. Somehow I doubt they would be willing to cut the fee based on what Tesla claims.
    - kwhitefoot 3y ago
      Can someone present evidence that Teslas are more expensive to insured than other comparable vehicles? Along with evidence that the difference is because of safety rather than cost of repairs?
      - olyjohn 3y ago
        Tesla has their own insurance because people were complaining about high rates. Why else would they come up with their own insurance?
        kwhitefoot 3y ago
        > Why else would they come up with their own insurance? If they had evidence that their cars were less likely to be involved in accidents then it would pay them to set up an insurance company and charge just below the usual rates. Even if they are merely as safe as other cars then Tesla could provide insurance at lower prices because they need only break even and they have better statistics.
  - yumraj 3y ago
    Citation needed, Musk’s tweet doesn’t qualify.
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      Hope this link posted further down the thread does qualify though. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618
  - olyjohn 3y ago
    That's not a great idea. The driver is still in control of the car and is no better than anybody else, and maybe even not paying attentnion because some think autopilot is self driving. You should treat all other traffic with the same defense.
- valine 3y ago
  Why are you loitering beside other cars? This is a good safety practice regardless of the car’s make and model.
  - pc86 3y ago
    It's a shame this is getting downvoted because it's true. In any level of traffic except stop-and-go--and even then to a large extent--you should be doing everything within your power to either pass the cars on your right, and/or move over to let cars pass you on the left. It is a vanishingly small number of scenarios where you are keeping pace with a car next to you and you're not in the wrong. This isn't just at high speed or on highways, any two-land road operates (or is designed to operate) this way.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      That's not the same everywhere in the world though, and even in places where it is strictly passing on the left (or on the right in the UK, Japan and a few other places) 'keep your lane' tends to be the rule if the right hand lane is also moving at the speed limit (so you can't legally pass). That way the carrying capacity of the road is higher. But when traffic is less dense 'station keeping' should be avoided at all times and if someone moves into my 'dead zone' or just to the left of me I'll gradually slow down to force them to finish their overtake.
      - withinboredom 3y ago
        > 'keep your lane' tends to be the rule if the right hand lane is also moving at the speed limit (so you can't legally pass). Why are you in the lefter lane if you can't pass? I've been in rush hour (where keep-to-the-right-unless-passing is very strictly enforced) in bumper-to-bumper traffic and the left two (out of 6) are completely empty and everyone is doing 'around' the speed limit. Some are in the right lane doing a few below the limit, some are in the left-most lane doing a few above. Occasionally, someone who is late to work, emergency services, or whatever goes flying by in one of the left-most lanes.
misiti3780 3y ago
phantom breaking isnt a thing in 2023. it used to be a problem, it's not anymore if you have HW3
- McSwag 3y ago
  Spoken by someone who clearly doesn’t own or drive a Tesla. Phantom braking is very much STILL an unsolved problem.
  - misiti3780 3y ago
    I own a tesla, im on fsd 14.2 though. maybe it's still an issue on auto-pilot. i have no had an issue with phantom breaking in over a year.
- uturingmachine 3y ago
  This is not true, I purchased a Model 3 brand new in 2021; it has HW3 and it absolutely does phantom braking regularly on road trips. This is on US interstates.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Why do you keep driving it? I had a car that did this to me twice and got rid of it, the first time could have been a glitch but twice is simply broken and dangerous. The dealer said the car was fine.
    - MortimerDukePhD 3y ago
      [dead]
    - cypress66 3y ago
      All car brands ADAS are imperfect. If it phantom brakes you just push the accelerator, or simply don't use the ADAS. You can drive the car normally, you aren't forced to use ADAS if you don't like it.
bottlepalm 3y ago
You shouldn't tail any car in general. There's a lot more 'real' braking out there than 'phantom' braking.
- buildbot 3y ago
  Sure, but an unexpected full ABS lock when you can see nothing in front of the tesla is going to be yard for most to react quickly too even at a decent distance. 10 second follow distances are only possible in most metros during very light traffic.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    You only need 2 seconds to be safe. It's longer than you think.
    - andybak 3y ago
      3 is the guidance in the UK at least
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        > You should ... allow at least a two-second gap between you and the vehicle in front on high-speed roads and in tunnels where visibility is reduced. The gap should be at least doubled on wet roads and up to ten times greater on icy roads Highway code rule 126[0] says 2? [0] https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-t...
        andybak 3y ago
        Oh. I stand corrected.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
xenospn 3y ago
sadly this is virtually impossible in Los Angeles.
- asdff 3y ago
  The Tesla drivers in LA are like an upper echelon of terrible Tesla drivers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd0IpJFSZ10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd0IpJFSZ10
izzydata 3y ago
Agreed. With human drivers you can, in most cases, see their intent with the way they move. With tesla or other self driving systems it is a black box that is way less predictable.
asdff 3y ago
I avoid them too. Erratic drivers too. I'm not sure if its them coming out of autopilot back into control or just that's what happens when you have a lead foot and a car that goes to 60mph in 3 seconds entirely silently.
GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
Any car with regenerative braking is obnoxious, by federal law they aren't required to flash the brake lights when decelerating, ONLY when they're applying the physical brake and not when the car is regenerating, etc.
- noveltyaccount 3y ago
  I don't know about the law, but that's not true of Teslas. Deceleration triggers brake lights. Here's one example where a guy tests it https://youtu.be/dmptMElBpjI https://youtu.be/dmptMElBpjI
- oittaa 3y ago
  I agree, non-Teslas should be banned just for that reason. On top of that literally every other brand is also more dangerous to drive[0]. 0: https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618
- zeeZ 3y ago
  This is not true for the EU. > 0,7 m/s² and ≤ 1,3 m/s² The signal may be generated. > 1,3 m/s² The signal shall be generated. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/2364/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/2364/oj

I treat them like semi-trucks on the highway. Pass them or let them pass you, but don't loiter alongside, behind or in front of one.

bboygravity 3y ago
I treat them like the safest cars to be around. Because statistically, they are?
- viraptor 3y ago
  That's not proven as far as I know, unless you've got stats? (And not the stats from their website - those are not comparable)
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    > And not the stats from their website There is a reason it is said, "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." Statistically, there's a ~7% chance I won't die because ~7% of all humans who have ever lived haven't died.
- adversaryIdiot 3y ago
  if you are on the inside at least... But yeah i think they tend to have better track records than human drivers.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  There's a difference between safety and consistency.
- belorn 3y ago
  According to statistics that Tesla publish. I would like to see mercedes publish their own statistics on their FSD. Given the tight constraints where they allow self driving, they could easily claim 100% safety record and thus infinitive more safe than any other manufacturer. It would be misleading, but statistically it would be the truth (any accidents could be said to be outside the constraint and thus will not count). Personally I would only really trust such statistics if insurance companies would reflect that in the premium. Somehow I doubt they would be willing to cut the fee based on what Tesla claims.
  - kwhitefoot 3y ago
    Can someone present evidence that Teslas are more expensive to insured than other comparable vehicles? Along with evidence that the difference is because of safety rather than cost of repairs?
    - olyjohn 3y ago
      Tesla has their own insurance because people were complaining about high rates. Why else would they come up with their own insurance?
      - kwhitefoot 3y ago
        > Why else would they come up with their own insurance? If they had evidence that their cars were less likely to be involved in accidents then it would pay them to set up an insurance company and charge just below the usual rates. Even if they are merely as safe as other cars then Tesla could provide insurance at lower prices because they need only break even and they have better statistics.
- yumraj 3y ago
  Citation needed, Musk’s tweet doesn’t qualify.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Hope this link posted further down the thread does qualify though. https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618
- olyjohn 3y ago
  That's not a great idea. The driver is still in control of the car and is no better than anybody else, and maybe even not paying attentnion because some think autopilot is self driving. You should treat all other traffic with the same defense.
valine 3y ago
Why are you loitering beside other cars? This is a good safety practice regardless of the car’s make and model.
- pc86 3y ago
  It's a shame this is getting downvoted because it's true. In any level of traffic except stop-and-go--and even then to a large extent--you should be doing everything within your power to either pass the cars on your right, and/or move over to let cars pass you on the left. It is a vanishingly small number of scenarios where you are keeping pace with a car next to you and you're not in the wrong. This isn't just at high speed or on highways, any two-land road operates (or is designed to operate) this way.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    That's not the same everywhere in the world though, and even in places where it is strictly passing on the left (or on the right in the UK, Japan and a few other places) 'keep your lane' tends to be the rule if the right hand lane is also moving at the speed limit (so you can't legally pass). That way the carrying capacity of the road is higher. But when traffic is less dense 'station keeping' should be avoided at all times and if someone moves into my 'dead zone' or just to the left of me I'll gradually slow down to force them to finish their overtake.
    - withinboredom 3y ago
      > 'keep your lane' tends to be the rule if the right hand lane is also moving at the speed limit (so you can't legally pass). Why are you in the lefter lane if you can't pass? I've been in rush hour (where keep-to-the-right-unless-passing is very strictly enforced) in bumper-to-bumper traffic and the left two (out of 6) are completely empty and everyone is doing 'around' the speed limit. Some are in the right lane doing a few below the limit, some are in the left-most lane doing a few above. Occasionally, someone who is late to work, emergency services, or whatever goes flying by in one of the left-most lanes.

misiti3780 3y ago

phantom breaking isnt a thing in 2023. it used to be a problem, it's not anymore if you have HW3

McSwag 3y ago
Spoken by someone who clearly doesn’t own or drive a Tesla. Phantom braking is very much STILL an unsolved problem.
- misiti3780 3y ago
  I own a tesla, im on fsd 14.2 though. maybe it's still an issue on auto-pilot. i have no had an issue with phantom breaking in over a year.
uturingmachine 3y ago
This is not true, I purchased a Model 3 brand new in 2021; it has HW3 and it absolutely does phantom braking regularly on road trips. This is on US interstates.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Why do you keep driving it? I had a car that did this to me twice and got rid of it, the first time could have been a glitch but twice is simply broken and dangerous. The dealer said the car was fine.
  - MortimerDukePhD 3y ago
    [dead]
  - cypress66 3y ago
    All car brands ADAS are imperfect. If it phantom brakes you just push the accelerator, or simply don't use the ADAS. You can drive the car normally, you aren't forced to use ADAS if you don't like it.

bottlepalm 3y ago

You shouldn't tail any car in general. There's a lot more 'real' braking out there than 'phantom' braking.

buildbot 3y ago
Sure, but an unexpected full ABS lock when you can see nothing in front of the tesla is going to be yard for most to react quickly too even at a decent distance. 10 second follow distances are only possible in most metros during very light traffic.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  You only need 2 seconds to be safe. It's longer than you think.
  - andybak 3y ago
    3 is the guidance in the UK at least
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > You should ... allow at least a two-second gap between you and the vehicle in front on high-speed roads and in tunnels where visibility is reduced. The gap should be at least doubled on wet roads and up to ten times greater on icy roads Highway code rule 126[0] says 2? [0] https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-t...
      - andybak 3y ago
        Oh. I stand corrected.
        robertlagrant 3y ago

xenospn 3y ago

sadly this is virtually impossible in Los Angeles.

asdff 3y ago
The Tesla drivers in LA are like an upper echelon of terrible Tesla drivers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd0IpJFSZ10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd0IpJFSZ10

izzydata 3y ago

Agreed. With human drivers you can, in most cases, see their intent with the way they move. With tesla or other self driving systems it is a black box that is way less predictable.

asdff 3y ago

I avoid them too. Erratic drivers too. I'm not sure if its them coming out of autopilot back into control or just that's what happens when you have a lead foot and a car that goes to 60mph in 3 seconds entirely silently.

GaryNumanVevo 3y ago

Any car with regenerative braking is obnoxious, by federal law they aren't required to flash the brake lights when decelerating, ONLY when they're applying the physical brake and not when the car is regenerating, etc.

noveltyaccount 3y ago
I don't know about the law, but that's not true of Teslas. Deceleration triggers brake lights. Here's one example where a guy tests it https://youtu.be/dmptMElBpjI https://youtu.be/dmptMElBpjI
oittaa 3y ago
I agree, non-Teslas should be banned just for that reason. On top of that literally every other brand is also more dangerous to drive[0]. 0: https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618 https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model+y/46618
zeeZ 3y ago
This is not true for the EU. > 0,7 m/s² and ≤ 1,3 m/s² The signal may be generated. > 1,3 m/s² The signal shall be generated. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/2364/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2015/2364/oj