15 ms·

yeah no doubt, he was popular, mostly because of great depression social programs and war ... but he also expanded executive power and ultimately led us on a pa

yeah no doubt, he was popular, mostly because of great depression social programs and war ... but he also expanded executive power and ultimately led us on a path to the welfare state status we're at today.

mrguyorama 3y ago
Calling the modern USA a welfare state is laughable.
pphysch 3y ago
It is remarkable that the totally ahistorical narrative of "FDR ruined the US (economy), Reagan saved it" is still popular outside of the elite whom it benefits. Propaganda works.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  "Welfare queen" stereotypes are still alive and well on the Right, despite there NEVER BEING A WELFARE QUEEN. It was a complete fabrication. Maybe they haven't had a great grip on reality for quite some time, or at least a willingness to ignore it.
timschmidt 3y ago
> led us on a path to the welfare state You may be interested in this pamphlet written by founding father Thomas Paine: https://www.ssa.gov/history/tpaine3.html https://www.ssa.gov/history/tpaine3.html
- Eumenes 3y ago
  I wasn't aware of this paper, thank you for sharing. Paine is an interesting character and mused on alot of subjects. Way more utopian in his ideas compared to his peers at the time. Obsessed with Revolution. Wouldn't say economics was his strength.
  - timschmidt 3y ago
    On the contrary, it seems to me that his reasoning about taxation - that it is unjust to coerce via force from the living and thus infinitely preferable to collect from the dead since they no longer need it, whereas the elderly and young do - to be unmatched in halls of power to this day.
    - Eumenes 3y ago
      And its not unjust for the state to seize inheritance in the name of equity? I think there are limits ... I'd like to give my children my wealth when I pass, but I am a modest person, not Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. We pay tax on our income, things we buy, our property, our investments, etc - now we must fork over what is left to the state to divvy out? There's a reason only 6 people attended Paine's funeral - he was advocating for a Peoples Monarchy.
      - timschmidt 3y ago
        Mr. Paine answers all your concerns in his wonderfully well thought-out pamphlet. If more people read it, the world would be a better place. Here's the full text: http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Paine1795.pdf http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Paine1795.pdf
mullingitover 3y ago
> ultimately led us on a path to the welfare state status we're at today That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be: he made enough basic concessions to the working class to prevent an outright socialist revolution. We weren't very far from it at that point in history. The welfare state is a safeguard. Every modern state has social supports, just like every modern road system has traffic control devices and other safety measures. The alternative, as we've seen repeatedly, is to allow unchecked profit motive to grind the masses down to the point that they start erecting guillotines.
- timschmidt 3y ago
  This is a very important point.
FrustratedMonky 3y ago
You mean, Corporate Welfare. The right often bemoan the welfare state for people, but love welfare for corporations.

mrguyorama 3y ago

Calling the modern USA a welfare state is laughable.

pphysch 3y ago

It is remarkable that the totally ahistorical narrative of "FDR ruined the US (economy), Reagan saved it" is still popular outside of the elite whom it benefits. Propaganda works.

mrguyorama 3y ago
"Welfare queen" stereotypes are still alive and well on the Right, despite there NEVER BEING A WELFARE QUEEN. It was a complete fabrication. Maybe they haven't had a great grip on reality for quite some time, or at least a willingness to ignore it.

timschmidt 3y ago

> led us on a path to the welfare state You may be interested in this pamphlet written by founding father Thomas Paine: https://www.ssa.gov/history/tpaine3.html https://www.ssa.gov/history/tpaine3.html

Eumenes 3y ago
I wasn't aware of this paper, thank you for sharing. Paine is an interesting character and mused on alot of subjects. Way more utopian in his ideas compared to his peers at the time. Obsessed with Revolution. Wouldn't say economics was his strength.
- timschmidt 3y ago
  On the contrary, it seems to me that his reasoning about taxation - that it is unjust to coerce via force from the living and thus infinitely preferable to collect from the dead since they no longer need it, whereas the elderly and young do - to be unmatched in halls of power to this day.
  - Eumenes 3y ago
    And its not unjust for the state to seize inheritance in the name of equity? I think there are limits ... I'd like to give my children my wealth when I pass, but I am a modest person, not Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. We pay tax on our income, things we buy, our property, our investments, etc - now we must fork over what is left to the state to divvy out? There's a reason only 6 people attended Paine's funeral - he was advocating for a Peoples Monarchy.
    - timschmidt 3y ago
      Mr. Paine answers all your concerns in his wonderfully well thought-out pamphlet. If more people read it, the world would be a better place. Here's the full text: http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Paine1795.pdf http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Paine1795.pdf

mullingitover 3y ago

> ultimately led us on a path to the welfare state status we're at today That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be: he made enough basic concessions to the working class to prevent an outright socialist revolution. We weren't very far from it at that point in history. The welfare state is a safeguard. Every modern state has social supports, just like every modern road system has traffic control devices and other safety measures. The alternative, as we've seen repeatedly, is to allow unchecked profit motive to grind the masses down to the point that they start erecting guillotines.

timschmidt 3y ago
This is a very important point.

FrustratedMonky 3y ago

You mean, Corporate Welfare. The right often bemoan the welfare state for people, but love welfare for corporations.