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The debt ceiling was created so that Congress does not have to pass a new bill for each time bonds are issued. It's purpose is to streamline running a modern co

The debt ceiling was created so that Congress does not have to pass a new bill for each time bonds are issued. It's purpose is to streamline running a modern country, not to be a weapon against the running of the country. It is not and was never intended as a sword of Damocles to keep debt down. It is also carries less weight than the 14th amendment as the Constitution supersedes laws created by Congress like the debt limit was.

rayiner 3y ago
You've got it backwards. Congress has effectively delegated its power to issue debt to the Treasury. That would ordinarily be unconstitutional. But the Supreme Court has authorized such delegation so long as Congress provides an "intelligible principle" by which the executive must exercise the power: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondelegation_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondelegation_doctrine. The point is that Congress ultimately remains in control. The debt-ceiling is what makes that whole exercise constitutional to begin with. Congress said: "okay, Treasury can borrow money, but only up to this much." If the executive disregards the debt ceiling, that would break the fiction of delegation, and the executive will have fully wrested a fundamental Congressional power away from Congress. That's the same reason why the 14th amendment cannot override the debt ceiling. Yes, the debt ceiling is a statute. But without it, Treasury has no power to issue any debt.
- ROTMetro 3y ago
  Dude that is what I said. It's only purpose is so that Congress doesn't have to approve EVERY BOND issue. Congress can for sure approve a new bond issue separate of the debt ceiling. The Dems should put forward a special bond bill to fund keeping the government running that isn't a raise on the debt ceiling but just a bond bill for a specific bond sale. Good luck seeing the Republicans argue not passing that (it's not an increase to the debt ceiling after all). The debt ceiling is purely to make issuing debt easier but was created for and has no other purpose than administrative ease and lower the amount of bills Congress has to pass. It was never intended as a sword of Damocles, and it is definitely superseded by the 14th Amendment. Hope the Republicans enjoy the civil rights violation lawsuits from everyone who suffers actual damages when their mortgage interest rates go up due to the Republican's violating the 14th Amendment so that the Republicans can benefit from that fallout. Especially now that the head of the Republican party is on the record stating that a failure to raise the debt limit will benefit the Republican's politically come election time.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    What would be the 14th amendment violation?

rayiner 3y ago

You've got it backwards. Congress has effectively delegated its power to issue debt to the Treasury. That would ordinarily be unconstitutional. But the Supreme Court has authorized such delegation so long as Congress provides an "intelligible principle" by which the executive must exercise the power: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondelegation_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondelegation_doctrine. The point is that Congress ultimately remains in control. The debt-ceiling is what makes that whole exercise constitutional to begin with. Congress said: "okay, Treasury can borrow money, but only up to this much." If the executive disregards the debt ceiling, that would break the fiction of delegation, and the executive will have fully wrested a fundamental Congressional power away from Congress. That's the same reason why the 14th amendment cannot override the debt ceiling. Yes, the debt ceiling is a statute. But without it, Treasury has no power to issue any debt.

ROTMetro 3y ago
Dude that is what I said. It's only purpose is so that Congress doesn't have to approve EVERY BOND issue. Congress can for sure approve a new bond issue separate of the debt ceiling. The Dems should put forward a special bond bill to fund keeping the government running that isn't a raise on the debt ceiling but just a bond bill for a specific bond sale. Good luck seeing the Republicans argue not passing that (it's not an increase to the debt ceiling after all). The debt ceiling is purely to make issuing debt easier but was created for and has no other purpose than administrative ease and lower the amount of bills Congress has to pass. It was never intended as a sword of Damocles, and it is definitely superseded by the 14th Amendment. Hope the Republicans enjoy the civil rights violation lawsuits from everyone who suffers actual damages when their mortgage interest rates go up due to the Republican's violating the 14th Amendment so that the Republicans can benefit from that fallout. Especially now that the head of the Republican party is on the record stating that a failure to raise the debt limit will benefit the Republican's politically come election time.
- rayiner 3y ago
  What would be the 14th amendment violation?