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In Marine Corps bootcamp, this man is lionized for his accomplishments during service. After my service ended I read war is a racket and it profoundly changed a

In Marine Corps bootcamp, this man is lionized for his accomplishments during service. After my service ended I read war is a racket and it profoundly changed a lot of my viewpoints.

einpoklum 3y ago
> I read war is a racket ... After my service ended If only we could get US marines to read this before their service started. :-(
- wyldberry 3y ago
  That would likely require a return to mandatory service.
  - einpoklum 3y ago
    Return to mandatory service is a possible action of the US (federal) government, I was talking about an oppositionary initiative.
    - wyldberry 3y ago
      I understand where you are coming from, it's just naive to think that a nation state won't form a counter action to preserve it's ability to wage war.
  - jollyllama 3y ago
    It's not going to happen. You couldn't get enough able-bodied people to show up or communities to enforce it. The ideals that made this possible for Vietnam will die with the boomers.
    - Jotra7 3y ago
      [dead]
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      After 20 years of blowing things up in a far away desert, the US military is struggling to find enough volunteers to meet it's requirements. Nobody wants to go die in the desert. Maybe if we had spent the past 20 years not doing that, the US would have a bit more gusto from the youngins. If we go to war with China, and it's not just some minor skirmish, I expect there to be a draft.
      - glogla 3y ago
        War between the West and China would be naval and air affair (with the exception of Korea I guess), so the traditional draft doesn't make much sense I think. The war would be mostly about whether US can blockade China into a collapse, because China is not self-sufficient in energy (by a huge margin) and food (by a smaller margin). You might see people drafted into factories, given how much stuff is made in China and the impact on global trade, though.
      - jollyllama 3y ago
        >After 20 years of blowing things up in a far away desert, the US military is struggling to find enough volunteers to meet it's requirements. Nobody wants to go die in the desert. The desert stuff was not so bad by comparison. These were asymmetrical conflicts. The emerging threats are near-peer forces. Even fewer will want to sign up for that! >I expect there to be a draft. And if there is a draft there will be mass noncompliance. It won't work. If they're smart they won't try it because that would look weak.
    - giantrobot 3y ago
      You mean the Boomers' parents. Because those were the ones that were fine with the draft. The Boomers were the ones being drafted.
      - jollyllama 3y ago
        Oh, they would draft the zoomers if they could. The fact that it happened to the boomers previously will only deepen their conviction that others should have to deal with it too.
        giantrobot 3y ago
        I don't disagree with that point at all. It's always seemed like a large contingent of Boomers are unhappy unless younger generations suffer more than them.
  - milkytron 3y ago
    Switzerland has a mandatory service requirement for men, and the people there experience fewer gun deaths per capita despite having a relatively high gun ownership rate.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      This thread is not about gun control or lack thereof.
      - RajT88 3y ago
        Even ignoring that part - it's weird bringing up War and Switzerland. All those wars Switzerland has fought...
        mrguyorama 3y ago
        That's actually an important point though. The kind of isolationist neutrality that Switzerland has is only possible if you can make it seem like conquering you is impossible to justify. Switzerland will protect its neutrality by force if necessary. They also have a military industrial complex, so is that one a racket?
        RajT88 3y ago
        > so is that one a racket? Probably somewhat, but if you read the essay, you wouldn't come away with the impression that the author's disillusionment is targeted in any way at a country like Switzerland. His thesis seems to be that elites profit off casualties, and are happy to foment more wars as a result.
        lmm 3y ago
        Isn't that exactly the point, that it's possible to be neutral and isolationist?
        tmtvl 3y ago
        Hey, when I was young Swiss mercenaries were considered truly elite troops. Remember the battle of Nancy.
  - carpet_wheel 3y ago
    I'd love to see it. Probably the quickest way to end imperialism would be to force Americans to do the dirty work themselves.
    - all2 3y ago
      This has been in my head for awhile. It would give a "common ground" or "common understanding" that Americans seem to lack at this point. I would hope something like this would provide a framework to communicate for wildly differing political ideas.

In Marine Corps bootcamp, this man is lionized for his accomplishments during service. After my service ended I read war is a racket and it profoundly changed a lot of my viewpoints.

einpoklum 3y ago

> I read war is a racket ... After my service ended If only we could get US marines to read this before their service started. :-(

wyldberry 3y ago
That would likely require a return to mandatory service.
- einpoklum 3y ago
  Return to mandatory service is a possible action of the US (federal) government, I was talking about an oppositionary initiative.
  - wyldberry 3y ago
    I understand where you are coming from, it's just naive to think that a nation state won't form a counter action to preserve it's ability to wage war.
- jollyllama 3y ago
  It's not going to happen. You couldn't get enough able-bodied people to show up or communities to enforce it. The ideals that made this possible for Vietnam will die with the boomers.
  - Jotra7 3y ago
    [dead]
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    After 20 years of blowing things up in a far away desert, the US military is struggling to find enough volunteers to meet it's requirements. Nobody wants to go die in the desert. Maybe if we had spent the past 20 years not doing that, the US would have a bit more gusto from the youngins. If we go to war with China, and it's not just some minor skirmish, I expect there to be a draft.
    - glogla 3y ago
      War between the West and China would be naval and air affair (with the exception of Korea I guess), so the traditional draft doesn't make much sense I think. The war would be mostly about whether US can blockade China into a collapse, because China is not self-sufficient in energy (by a huge margin) and food (by a smaller margin). You might see people drafted into factories, given how much stuff is made in China and the impact on global trade, though.
    - jollyllama 3y ago
      >After 20 years of blowing things up in a far away desert, the US military is struggling to find enough volunteers to meet it's requirements. Nobody wants to go die in the desert. The desert stuff was not so bad by comparison. These were asymmetrical conflicts. The emerging threats are near-peer forces. Even fewer will want to sign up for that! >I expect there to be a draft. And if there is a draft there will be mass noncompliance. It won't work. If they're smart they won't try it because that would look weak.
  - giantrobot 3y ago
    You mean the Boomers' parents. Because those were the ones that were fine with the draft. The Boomers were the ones being drafted.
    - jollyllama 3y ago
      Oh, they would draft the zoomers if they could. The fact that it happened to the boomers previously will only deepen their conviction that others should have to deal with it too.
      - giantrobot 3y ago
        I don't disagree with that point at all. It's always seemed like a large contingent of Boomers are unhappy unless younger generations suffer more than them.
- milkytron 3y ago
  Switzerland has a mandatory service requirement for men, and the people there experience fewer gun deaths per capita despite having a relatively high gun ownership rate.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    This thread is not about gun control or lack thereof.
    - RajT88 3y ago
      Even ignoring that part - it's weird bringing up War and Switzerland. All those wars Switzerland has fought...
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        That's actually an important point though. The kind of isolationist neutrality that Switzerland has is only possible if you can make it seem like conquering you is impossible to justify. Switzerland will protect its neutrality by force if necessary. They also have a military industrial complex, so is that one a racket?
        RajT88 3y ago
        > so is that one a racket? Probably somewhat, but if you read the essay, you wouldn't come away with the impression that the author's disillusionment is targeted in any way at a country like Switzerland. His thesis seems to be that elites profit off casualties, and are happy to foment more wars as a result.
      - lmm 3y ago
        Isn't that exactly the point, that it's possible to be neutral and isolationist?
      - tmtvl 3y ago
        Hey, when I was young Swiss mercenaries were considered truly elite troops. Remember the battle of Nancy.
- carpet_wheel 3y ago
  I'd love to see it. Probably the quickest way to end imperialism would be to force Americans to do the dirty work themselves.
  - all2 3y ago
    This has been in my head for awhile. It would give a "common ground" or "common understanding" that Americans seem to lack at this point. I would hope something like this would provide a framework to communicate for wildly differing political ideas.