6 ms·

It's a barbell. The Ironclad guarantee or default, there is no mid-rating for USA. This is just wall street pageantry to drum up noise to get a compromise. If

It's a barbell. The Ironclad guarantee or default, there is no mid-rating for USA. This is just wall street pageantry to drum up noise to get a compromise. If you think it's GOP brinksmanship you are entitled to, but a savvy operator knows, It takes two to tango. edit1: note: the keyword in the above post is 'savvy operator'. I am not taking political sides and happy to bet $1000 that at the end of the hour there will be compromise. I have seen this song and dance before. So please take your political talking points elsewhere.

Steltek 3y ago
The threat of default has been a tool wielded solely by conservatives. And negotiating with terrorists (destructive threats to achieve political ends) is never "compromise".
- sremani 3y ago
  It's a divided government, no need to be melodramatic about it.
- thsksbd 3y ago
  [dead]
yamtaddle 3y ago
> If you think it's GOP brinksmanship you are entitled to, but a savvy operator knows, It takes two to tango. Do you believe the Democrats would decline, if the GOP House offered a "clean" debt ceiling increase?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jimbob45 3y ago
If you think it's GOP brinksmanship you are entitled to, but a savvy operator knows, It takes two to tango. You don't need to be a savvy operator at all, you just need to have followed US politics for more than a few years. The parties have been doing this since, what? 2014? We're going on a decade of this. Both parties do it and always compromise just fine in the end. Blaming one party or the other shows a distinct lack of self-awareness.
- yamtaddle 3y ago
  > Both parties do it and always compromise just fine in the end. When have the Democrats refused to raise the debt ceiling without conditions? Maybe they have and I've just missed it.
  - thsksbd 3y ago
    [dead]
  - whateveracct 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_debt_ceiling#:~:text=The%20debt%20ceiling%20was%20raised,debt%20itself%20may%20have%20reduced https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_d.... Reading through history, it seems it has always been Republicans doing it. You could even say they invented it.
    - yamtaddle 3y ago
      That was my recollection, but I thought maybe I'd gotten it wrong. Gotta say, the "takes" I've read on HN while this has been going on have been illuminating. If quite a few people believe this is a "both sides" thing and that both parties are playing games with the debt ceiling, it explains how the GOP could possibly think it's sound strategy. I guess maybe they're even right. It would never have occurred to me that a lot of folks are "reading" this as about-equally the fault of the Democrats, but evidently, they are, and that explains some things.
      - ars 3y ago
        To be simplistic about it: Republicans want to reduce spending, Democrats want to increase it. So obviously Republicans would be against raising the debt ceiling, and just as obviously it's the fault of the Democrats that we need to raise it in the first place. Does that help you understand better what people are thinking? And who they are blaming?
unethical_ban 3y ago
So your assertion is that the gun the GOP is pointing at the US economy isn't a big deal because the economy has a bulletproof vest on? Or you think that the Democrats are to blame for not capitulating to a hostage-taker's demands? I'm not a trained economist, so I can't weigh in on the "how big a deal is this really" conversation. But I know how the debt and the debt ceiling have been explained to me, and it sounds as though the "debt ceiling" should not exist. It is not a budgeting item. It is an arbitrary constraint that now only exists to allow the Republicans to play chicken with the world economy. Want better spending habits? Want federal budgets tied to fiscal caps? Write a bill that requires debt to be factored into budgets at the budget building stage. No one should get to tell the Treasury to stop payment on things we've already told citizens and bondholders we would pay for. Of course, building a budget on an annual basis is too much for Congress, too, which is why we should radically transform our federal government. Articles 1,2 and 3 need a rewrite. I digress.
- sremani 3y ago
  It's basic leverage and negotiations. The GOP has to show their base they fought and hanged in there. Just like Democrats have to show that they stood firm. This is more or less PR stunt for respective bases and hoping other side would flitch to get a better deal. A last minute deal will be ironed out and everyone wins.. well except for future American citizens.
  - unethical_ban 3y ago
    You presuppose that posturing is never dangerous or immoral. Posturing that you are willing to nuke the economy is bad, even if it's fake.
- thsksbd 3y ago
  [dead]

Steltek 3y ago

The threat of default has been a tool wielded solely by conservatives. And negotiating with terrorists (destructive threats to achieve political ends) is never "compromise".

sremani 3y ago
It's a divided government, no need to be melodramatic about it.
thsksbd 3y ago
[dead]

yamtaddle 3y ago

> If you think it's GOP brinksmanship you are entitled to, but a savvy operator knows, It takes two to tango. Do you believe the Democrats would decline, if the GOP House offered a "clean" debt ceiling increase?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

jimbob45 3y ago

If you think it's GOP brinksmanship you are entitled to, but a savvy operator knows, It takes two to tango. You don't need to be a savvy operator at all, you just need to have followed US politics for more than a few years. The parties have been doing this since, what? 2014? We're going on a decade of this. Both parties do it and always compromise just fine in the end. Blaming one party or the other shows a distinct lack of self-awareness.

yamtaddle 3y ago
> Both parties do it and always compromise just fine in the end. When have the Democrats refused to raise the debt ceiling without conditions? Maybe they have and I've just missed it.
- thsksbd 3y ago
  [dead]
- whateveracct 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_debt_ceiling#:~:text=The%20debt%20ceiling%20was%20raised,debt%20itself%20may%20have%20reduced https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_d.... Reading through history, it seems it has always been Republicans doing it. You could even say they invented it.
  - yamtaddle 3y ago
    That was my recollection, but I thought maybe I'd gotten it wrong. Gotta say, the "takes" I've read on HN while this has been going on have been illuminating. If quite a few people believe this is a "both sides" thing and that both parties are playing games with the debt ceiling, it explains how the GOP could possibly think it's sound strategy. I guess maybe they're even right. It would never have occurred to me that a lot of folks are "reading" this as about-equally the fault of the Democrats, but evidently, they are, and that explains some things.
    - ars 3y ago
      To be simplistic about it: Republicans want to reduce spending, Democrats want to increase it. So obviously Republicans would be against raising the debt ceiling, and just as obviously it's the fault of the Democrats that we need to raise it in the first place. Does that help you understand better what people are thinking? And who they are blaming?

unethical_ban 3y ago

So your assertion is that the gun the GOP is pointing at the US economy isn't a big deal because the economy has a bulletproof vest on? Or you think that the Democrats are to blame for not capitulating to a hostage-taker's demands? I'm not a trained economist, so I can't weigh in on the "how big a deal is this really" conversation. But I know how the debt and the debt ceiling have been explained to me, and it sounds as though the "debt ceiling" should not exist. It is not a budgeting item. It is an arbitrary constraint that now only exists to allow the Republicans to play chicken with the world economy. Want better spending habits? Want federal budgets tied to fiscal caps? Write a bill that requires debt to be factored into budgets at the budget building stage. No one should get to tell the Treasury to stop payment on things we've already told citizens and bondholders we would pay for. Of course, building a budget on an annual basis is too much for Congress, too, which is why we should radically transform our federal government. Articles 1,2 and 3 need a rewrite. I digress.

sremani 3y ago
It's basic leverage and negotiations. The GOP has to show their base they fought and hanged in there. Just like Democrats have to show that they stood firm. This is more or less PR stunt for respective bases and hoping other side would flitch to get a better deal. A last minute deal will be ironed out and everyone wins.. well except for future American citizens.
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  You presuppose that posturing is never dangerous or immoral. Posturing that you are willing to nuke the economy is bad, even if it's fake.
thsksbd 3y ago
[dead]