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I think they're very different conflicts of interest from an ethical perspective. It is morally reprehensible to try to skew scientific results for greed. It is

by elil17 3y ago

I think they're very different conflicts of interest from an ethical perspective. It is morally reprehensible to try to skew scientific results for greed. It is (in my view) not so morally reprehensible to try to skew scientific results because you want to stop animals from getting hurt. But from the scientific perspective, there is a specific factual question: what are the effects of meat consumption on human health? Nutrition research is super finicky. Even absent any conflict of interest, it's unclear that nutrition results are trustworthy. So I don't think it's fair to throw out every study which says meat is healthy and just focus on the studies that say meat is unhealthy.

the_gastropod 3y ago
Fair enough. And I agree. It's not ok to toss out any study that says meat is healthy. But it _is_ fair to be deeply suspicious if it was funded by a financially interested party. And, for what it's worth, this should apply to avocado studies funded by Avocados From Mexico, orange juice studies funded by Tropicana, banana studies by Chiquita, etc.
ROTMetro 3y ago
Come on, they are both equally morally reprehensible as they erode trust in science and lead us towards darkness. Ends doesn't justify the means, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is basic level stuff.
- elil17 3y ago
  I don't like either but they will never be equal in my mind. Person A sees someone torturing a dog and kills them out of indignation. Person B is a hitman-for-hire who doesn't know who he's killed or why. Are person A and B really morally equivalent?
- the_gastropod 3y ago
  If they deliberately skewed their results to fit their narrative, yes: that's obviously reprehensible. That's not what we're talking about, however. We're talking about what level of suspicion is appropriate in various scenarios. It's unlikely we can _know_ if results were purposefully sabotaged or not. We have to make some best guess. Interested parties funding studies is deeply suspicious, and should be treated with a hefty dose of skepticism. Hand waving that "maybe the researchers were motivated by empathy?!" is not at all equivalent. That is a incredibly low bar that, itself, undermines trust in science, as one could trivially make up similar excuses to distrust virtually any study ever conducted. Oh, researchers found declining sources of fresh water year over year? Biased. They probably just like cheap drinking water. Better ignore it. An Aquafina-backed study shows the opposite. That study is biased, too. But they're both equally morally reprehensible.

by elil17 3y ago

the_gastropod 3y ago

Fair enough. And I agree. It's not ok to toss out any study that says meat is healthy. But it _is_ fair to be deeply suspicious if it was funded by a financially interested party. And, for what it's worth, this should apply to avocado studies funded by Avocados From Mexico, orange juice studies funded by Tropicana, banana studies by Chiquita, etc.

ROTMetro 3y ago

Come on, they are both equally morally reprehensible as they erode trust in science and lead us towards darkness. Ends doesn't justify the means, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is basic level stuff.

elil17 3y ago
I don't like either but they will never be equal in my mind. Person A sees someone torturing a dog and kills them out of indignation. Person B is a hitman-for-hire who doesn't know who he's killed or why. Are person A and B really morally equivalent?
the_gastropod 3y ago
If they deliberately skewed their results to fit their narrative, yes: that's obviously reprehensible. That's not what we're talking about, however. We're talking about what level of suspicion is appropriate in various scenarios. It's unlikely we can _know_ if results were purposefully sabotaged or not. We have to make some best guess. Interested parties funding studies is deeply suspicious, and should be treated with a hefty dose of skepticism. Hand waving that "maybe the researchers were motivated by empathy?!" is not at all equivalent. That is a incredibly low bar that, itself, undermines trust in science, as one could trivially make up similar excuses to distrust virtually any study ever conducted. Oh, researchers found declining sources of fresh water year over year? Biased. They probably just like cheap drinking water. Better ignore it. An Aquafina-backed study shows the opposite. That study is biased, too. But they're both equally morally reprehensible.