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I agree, though it does kind of feel like we're in the minority on this. I thought Ripley's character was substantially more developed in Aliens than Alien. I

I agree, though it does kind of feel like we're in the minority on this. I thought Ripley's character was substantially more developed in Aliens than Alien. In Alien, most of the humans exists to be victims (or potential victims) of the monster. In Alien (at least in the directors cut), we have Ripley coming to terms with the fact that she outlived her daughter, developing a maternal bond with Newt, and fundamentally just growing as a character. A part of me hates Alien 3 so much that I just pretend it doesn't exist.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
We could have had Gibson's Alien 3. With a lead-in to a hive-Earth movie. Instead, we got a "no guns" and trashing everything that was great about the second movie. I have a difficult time reconciling it with the fact that it's a Fincher movie.
- mellosouls 3y ago
  I agree with you and others on the disappointment of Alien 3, but I recently listened to the Audible of Gibson's Alien 3 and was underwhelmed, it seemed like a bog-standard actioner.
- tombert 3y ago
  I never really got over the fact that they killed Newt in the first five minutes of the movie. To me it sort of negated the entire third act of Aliens, which was all about saving Newt and somewhat of a redemption story for Ripley. To be fair to Fincher, didn't he want to take his name off of it because he problems with the script?
  - George83728 3y ago
    The way I see it, new movies don't modify old movies. The third movie cannot nullify the ending of the second movie because it cannot modify the second movie in any way. How could it be any other way? Because "canon"? It's a senseless concept. Suppose I buy the full rights to all Alien intellectual property, and then commission a prequel story in which Ripley cruelly murders a dog for no reason. Does this ruin the first movie, by making it into a story about a heroic dog murderer? No, I didn't change the first story at all. Owning the IP doesn't make me into a time traveler who can retroactively modify the meaning of art created in the past. Even if I were the original creator and not just somebody who has the IP rights, I cannot travel into the past and modify the meaning of things already published.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      > Suppose I buy the full rights to all Alien intellectual property, and then commission a prequel story you just summed up Star Wars 1-3, only without having to buy the rights issues. so, yes, "prequels" and "canon" can harm the existing movies, or at least how people feel about them.
      - George83728 3y ago
        > you just summed up Star Wars 1-3, only without having to buy the rights issues. so, yes, "prequels" and "canon" can harm the existing movies, or at least how people feel about them. I know a lot of people feel that way, but it seems like self-inflicted harm to me. In the 90s I thoroughly wore out VHS copies of IV, V and VI. I came out and I thought it was a dull stinker (except podracing.) I really didn't like it, but it didn't change how I felt about the earlier movies which I continued to enjoy. They continued to be exactly the same movies they were before, it was just the new one that wasn't good. Midiclorians cannot devalue the original movies because they objectively weren't in the original movies. If you choose to believe they're now in the original movies, retroactively, because the IP holder says so decades later, how is that not a self-inflicted wound? When I hear these kind of complaints about later movies ruining earlier movies, all I can think is "stop hitting yourself".
    - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
      > The way I see it, new movies don't modify old movies Star Wars 7 showed that the celebration at the end of 6 was premature. The Empire is still out there and is still a match for whatever government exists. Luke, Leia, and Han haven't won. The misery continues for another 40 years. Star Wars 8 explained nothing. Star Wars 9 "somehow Palpatine returned". Fuck Disney and fuck everyone they hired.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        Defending Disney, the Palpatine-returns-with-better-and-more-weapons-than-before plot comes from Dark Horse comics. At least we didn't have Stackpole writing the scripts, JJ Abrams alone was bad enough. No idea what happened to Episode 8 so, Knifes Out and Glass Onion are great films with great plots and writing.
- catminou 3y ago
  At the time I recall a lot of drama around Fincher taking it on ("mtv music video director takes on alien project"). Also there is the case of how did the egg get on the sulaco, which isn't clear.
khazhoux 3y ago
I'm one of apparently 8 people who connected with Alien 3. Haven't seen it since high school (on its original release), but I found that it expanded the universe into a mystical aspect (which was reinforced by a comic book at the time where there a religion had sprouted up on Earth that worshipped Aliens). And I loved Fincher's visuals. I wonder if I'd still enjoy it if I watched it again now, though.
MisterTea 3y ago
> A part of me hates Alien 3 so much that I just pretend it doesn't exist. Agreed. Though I still count it as part of the original Alien trilogy. It felt like the story was a poor mix of the preceding two. The setting was confusing - a desolate forgotten prison colony that were miners or metal workers - a mill of some form? Worst one of the three BUT I will watch it any day compared to the next three turds which become more and more painful to watch. It was boring. Resurection was forgettable - I dont remember much save for Ripley is bought back from the dead, captive aliens escape from their inescapable pens (tired trope), Film finishes with Ripley fighting a hybrid human-alien on the space ship made from her DNA (it has a ma ma moment) and must have been made of boogers as it gets sucked out a little hole by a modest pressure differential. Basically another boring remake of Aliens. Then there is Prometheus and Genesis. I can't even begin to explain the seething hatred I have for these two - genesis being beyond infuriating. Basically the plots of both films are moved along by all the characters being awful at the jobs they are experts in or completely oblivious. But, hey at least the visuals were "breathtaking" or at least that's what the critics said... I wish these two steaming piles never existed.
- arp242 3y ago
  I choose to believe Prometheus and Covenant are actually parodies. They're actually pretty funny if you watch them with that in mind. "We're on an alien planet with an unknown biosphere so let me angrily take off my helmet because it's slightly uncomfortable; oh noes I've been infected with some alien virus; how could this possibly have happened?!?! Absolutely no way this could have been prevented in any way whatsoever!" Also interesting satire/social commentary on COVID masking and such if you think about it.
  - MisterTea 3y ago
    Covenant - right, I somehow thought it was Genesis - well it kinda was but god was it dumb. We watched them both back to back the day after watching Resurrection. drunk and high and riffed on them mst3k style so it wasn't bad watching them but when I saw it was in fact Scott I was furious that he accepted those lazy scripts. Wikipedia says two more films are TBA, another Prequal and "Untitled Alien film" for Hulu. God help us.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

We could have had Gibson's Alien 3. With a lead-in to a hive-Earth movie. Instead, we got a "no guns" and trashing everything that was great about the second movie. I have a difficult time reconciling it with the fact that it's a Fincher movie.

mellosouls 3y ago
I agree with you and others on the disappointment of Alien 3, but I recently listened to the Audible of Gibson's Alien 3 and was underwhelmed, it seemed like a bog-standard actioner.
tombert 3y ago
I never really got over the fact that they killed Newt in the first five minutes of the movie. To me it sort of negated the entire third act of Aliens, which was all about saving Newt and somewhat of a redemption story for Ripley. To be fair to Fincher, didn't he want to take his name off of it because he problems with the script?
- George83728 3y ago
  The way I see it, new movies don't modify old movies. The third movie cannot nullify the ending of the second movie because it cannot modify the second movie in any way. How could it be any other way? Because "canon"? It's a senseless concept. Suppose I buy the full rights to all Alien intellectual property, and then commission a prequel story in which Ripley cruelly murders a dog for no reason. Does this ruin the first movie, by making it into a story about a heroic dog murderer? No, I didn't change the first story at all. Owning the IP doesn't make me into a time traveler who can retroactively modify the meaning of art created in the past. Even if I were the original creator and not just somebody who has the IP rights, I cannot travel into the past and modify the meaning of things already published.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    > Suppose I buy the full rights to all Alien intellectual property, and then commission a prequel story you just summed up Star Wars 1-3, only without having to buy the rights issues. so, yes, "prequels" and "canon" can harm the existing movies, or at least how people feel about them.
    - George83728 3y ago
      > you just summed up Star Wars 1-3, only without having to buy the rights issues. so, yes, "prequels" and "canon" can harm the existing movies, or at least how people feel about them. I know a lot of people feel that way, but it seems like self-inflicted harm to me. In the 90s I thoroughly wore out VHS copies of IV, V and VI. I came out and I thought it was a dull stinker (except podracing.) I really didn't like it, but it didn't change how I felt about the earlier movies which I continued to enjoy. They continued to be exactly the same movies they were before, it was just the new one that wasn't good. Midiclorians cannot devalue the original movies because they objectively weren't in the original movies. If you choose to believe they're now in the original movies, retroactively, because the IP holder says so decades later, how is that not a self-inflicted wound? When I hear these kind of complaints about later movies ruining earlier movies, all I can think is "stop hitting yourself".
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
    > The way I see it, new movies don't modify old movies Star Wars 7 showed that the celebration at the end of 6 was premature. The Empire is still out there and is still a match for whatever government exists. Luke, Leia, and Han haven't won. The misery continues for another 40 years. Star Wars 8 explained nothing. Star Wars 9 "somehow Palpatine returned". Fuck Disney and fuck everyone they hired.
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Defending Disney, the Palpatine-returns-with-better-and-more-weapons-than-before plot comes from Dark Horse comics. At least we didn't have Stackpole writing the scripts, JJ Abrams alone was bad enough. No idea what happened to Episode 8 so, Knifes Out and Glass Onion are great films with great plots and writing.
catminou 3y ago
At the time I recall a lot of drama around Fincher taking it on ("mtv music video director takes on alien project"). Also there is the case of how did the egg get on the sulaco, which isn't clear.

khazhoux 3y ago

I'm one of apparently 8 people who connected with Alien 3. Haven't seen it since high school (on its original release), but I found that it expanded the universe into a mystical aspect (which was reinforced by a comic book at the time where there a religion had sprouted up on Earth that worshipped Aliens). And I loved Fincher's visuals. I wonder if I'd still enjoy it if I watched it again now, though.

MisterTea 3y ago

> A part of me hates Alien 3 so much that I just pretend it doesn't exist. Agreed. Though I still count it as part of the original Alien trilogy. It felt like the story was a poor mix of the preceding two. The setting was confusing - a desolate forgotten prison colony that were miners or metal workers - a mill of some form? Worst one of the three BUT I will watch it any day compared to the next three turds which become more and more painful to watch. It was boring. Resurection was forgettable - I dont remember much save for Ripley is bought back from the dead, captive aliens escape from their inescapable pens (tired trope), Film finishes with Ripley fighting a hybrid human-alien on the space ship made from her DNA (it has a ma ma moment) and must have been made of boogers as it gets sucked out a little hole by a modest pressure differential. Basically another boring remake of Aliens. Then there is Prometheus and Genesis. I can't even begin to explain the seething hatred I have for these two - genesis being beyond infuriating. Basically the plots of both films are moved along by all the characters being awful at the jobs they are experts in or completely oblivious. But, hey at least the visuals were "breathtaking" or at least that's what the critics said... I wish these two steaming piles never existed.

arp242 3y ago
I choose to believe Prometheus and Covenant are actually parodies. They're actually pretty funny if you watch them with that in mind. "We're on an alien planet with an unknown biosphere so let me angrily take off my helmet because it's slightly uncomfortable; oh noes I've been infected with some alien virus; how could this possibly have happened?!?! Absolutely no way this could have been prevented in any way whatsoever!" Also interesting satire/social commentary on COVID masking and such if you think about it.
- MisterTea 3y ago
  Covenant - right, I somehow thought it was Genesis - well it kinda was but god was it dumb. We watched them both back to back the day after watching Resurrection. drunk and high and riffed on them mst3k style so it wasn't bad watching them but when I saw it was in fact Scott I was furious that he accepted those lazy scripts. Wikipedia says two more films are TBA, another Prequal and "Untitled Alien film" for Hulu. God help us.