7 ms·

At some point, I realized that there's a disconnect between "me" and "my work". My work is a result of circumstance, like, what my mood was when I did it, how

by dusted 3y ago

At some point, I realized that there's a disconnect between "me" and "my work". My work is a result of circumstance, like, what my mood was when I did it, how well I know the particular domain, if I've seen solutions to similar problems before, what tools were available and understandable to me at the time. In other words, the quality of my work depends much more on what the particular task was, than on some inherent quality within myself. So, try not to let it influence me either way, to not feel some unjustified pride that I made something "difficult", or shame that I couldn't manage to do something "easy". One liberating tactic I employ, is that I clearly announce when I've messed up, and I'll be the first to do it, and usually with a joke.. "Yeah, so that amazing queue we got up and running last week, I took the liberty to totally mess that up, I learned a lot about how not to do it, I'll eventually learn how to do it right, no worries, I'm working on it." This takes the pressure off, people know it's broken, who broke it, and who's fixing it, and they expect that I come for help if I need it. One thing I don't do, is say sorry, I'm not sorry, this is my job, we do software development, we break stuff, we make errors, and I'm not sorry about it.

spyke112 3y ago
I the same, and it seems to be a realization that comes from past experience. I’m the most senior developer on the project I’m currently working, and I make just as many mistakes as new hires and juniors, the difference is that I probably am able to turn around and fix it a lot faster.
- switchbak 3y ago
  Personally I frame it differently these days: I do a lot of micro experiments, most of which don't work. But I've gotten better and faster at performing these experiments over time. The more of those I make, the more I learn, the more suitable the solution can be. When an author makes edits on a draft, those are steps to a finished product. We're similar: our steps result in learning, and that's the most essential element of a good product.
mnky9800n 3y ago
George Lucas said that "you make a movie, given the circumstances". I really like that idea because it makes it immediately clear that your ideal of what you want to do, create, etc. Will change because of the chaos and unpredictability around you.
- kqr 3y ago
  Similar to "men make their own history, just not under conditions of their own choosing" or however people usually simplify that Marx text.
- haunter 3y ago
  This is funny because he is the most infamous movie maker for changing movies over and over and over and over and over again (Star Wars). He took "given the circumstances" very liberally. Or another reading that "you make a movie" which never ever ends. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_War...
  - stonemetal12 3y ago
    Well, the circumstances changed, so he made a slightly different movie. ;)
  - catchnear4321 3y ago
    yousa die from chaos, or yousa live long enough to become it.
  - mnky9800n 3y ago
    George Lucas may be an idiosyncratic film maker but he is a rather thoughtful person when it comes to making films and I find interviews where he discusses the process to be very interesting.
pestaa 3y ago
Do you have a hard rule against saying sorry? I apologize not for the mistake in my work, but for wasting other people's time and mental bandwidth.
- dusted 3y ago
  Not a hard rule at all. What I meant, is that I don't apologize up front for making a mistake in my own work, for "writing code that does not work" or other things which could be interpreted as being the result of my lack of skill in my work, making mistakes is part of it, and fixing mistakes are too. I will be the first to apologize for messing up something for someone else, or giving bad advice, or for taking a decision which lead other people down a wrong path. I'll also apologize, as soon as possible, and in front of others if they're there, if I said something that could be misunderstood or sounded harsh or brash. (Though, that really does not happen very often at all). I believe in modesty and dignity, and apologizing is part of that.
- scott_w 3y ago
  This is a... tough question to answer. Do I apologise? Yes. Is it a sincere apology for wasting time? Not really. I can explain better with examples. "Sorry for wasting your time with this mistake," feels very formal and isn't really applicable in most cases. It would be more appropriate if, say, I'd made a mistake, not owned up to it, and the lack of accountability has a negative impact. "Ah shit, that's totally broken. Sorry, that was my bad!" is more what I'd do and it's a lot less formal. I'm not really apologising or feeling any remorse. I didn't do anything immoral, here. What I'm really saying with "sorry" is "I am accountable for making this mistake and I will commit to fixing it." I hope this helps clarify the different meanings.
- wasmitnetzen 3y ago
  I have a hard rule of not apologizing for honest mistakes. If I took a decision with the best intentions and it was the right call with all the knowledge I had at the time, I don't apologize for it. I do apologize for mistakes due to laziness, shortcuts, emotionally charged decisions and the like. Things I knew at the time (or could have known) were not the optimal choice.
- 3y ago
sverhagen 3y ago
It's easy to disconnect the work from yourself if there are circumstances outside of yourself, like an unrealistic deadline. But your mood or level of experience (examples you gave) seem exactly the sort of thing that someone could use to blame themselves...
- ilyt 3y ago
  Or it being personal pet project, whether privately or at work
- dusted 3y ago
  Kind of, but, my mood is not me.. I can be in a bad mood, I can be tired, there can be any number of reasons I'm not living up to my expectations of my normal output.. but that's still not _me_, it's part of the circumstance in which the work is done, and if it sucks, it sucks, doesn't make me suck any more or less. I've done pretty decent stuff, I've done pretty silly mistakes. Thing is, that decent stuff, probably came at just the right time.. The silly mistakes, they probably seemed right at the moment, either due to some lack of information that I should have had, or something I simply hadn't learned yet.
informalo 3y ago
There is an excellent TED talk on the relationship between self-worth and procrastination that also, like you, makes a point about separating "me and my work" [1]. Watching this about a year ago was eye opening to me and I wished I'd found this video when I started studying in college! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52lZmIafep4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52lZmIafep4
- Detrytus 3y ago
  Well, I have a problem here, because other than work there's not much going on in my life. No wife or kids, no fancy hobbies... I guess I really need to get more social :)
  - AlwaysRock 3y ago
    This was a big issue for me in my early 20s. I did a lot of work to ensure that my life outside of work was as interesting to me as my work life. If you don't have that balance, it is really hard to disconnect your work from your self-worth.
tbrownaw 3y ago
> In other words, the quality of my work depends much more on what the particular task was, than on some inherent quality within myself. Each individual piece of work separately, sure. In aggregate, anything that doesn't average out probably points at something to work on learning.

by dusted 3y ago

spyke112 3y ago

I the same, and it seems to be a realization that comes from past experience. I’m the most senior developer on the project I’m currently working, and I make just as many mistakes as new hires and juniors, the difference is that I probably am able to turn around and fix it a lot faster.

switchbak 3y ago
Personally I frame it differently these days: I do a lot of micro experiments, most of which don't work. But I've gotten better and faster at performing these experiments over time. The more of those I make, the more I learn, the more suitable the solution can be. When an author makes edits on a draft, those are steps to a finished product. We're similar: our steps result in learning, and that's the most essential element of a good product.

mnky9800n 3y ago

George Lucas said that "you make a movie, given the circumstances". I really like that idea because it makes it immediately clear that your ideal of what you want to do, create, etc. Will change because of the chaos and unpredictability around you.

kqr 3y ago
Similar to "men make their own history, just not under conditions of their own choosing" or however people usually simplify that Marx text.
haunter 3y ago
This is funny because he is the most infamous movie maker for changing movies over and over and over and over and over again (Star Wars). He took "given the circumstances" very liberally. Or another reading that "you make a movie" which never ever ends. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_War...
- stonemetal12 3y ago
  Well, the circumstances changed, so he made a slightly different movie. ;)
- catchnear4321 3y ago
  yousa die from chaos, or yousa live long enough to become it.
- mnky9800n 3y ago
  George Lucas may be an idiosyncratic film maker but he is a rather thoughtful person when it comes to making films and I find interviews where he discusses the process to be very interesting.

pestaa 3y ago

Do you have a hard rule against saying sorry? I apologize not for the mistake in my work, but for wasting other people's time and mental bandwidth.

dusted 3y ago
Not a hard rule at all. What I meant, is that I don't apologize up front for making a mistake in my own work, for "writing code that does not work" or other things which could be interpreted as being the result of my lack of skill in my work, making mistakes is part of it, and fixing mistakes are too. I will be the first to apologize for messing up something for someone else, or giving bad advice, or for taking a decision which lead other people down a wrong path. I'll also apologize, as soon as possible, and in front of others if they're there, if I said something that could be misunderstood or sounded harsh or brash. (Though, that really does not happen very often at all). I believe in modesty and dignity, and apologizing is part of that.
scott_w 3y ago
This is a... tough question to answer. Do I apologise? Yes. Is it a sincere apology for wasting time? Not really. I can explain better with examples. "Sorry for wasting your time with this mistake," feels very formal and isn't really applicable in most cases. It would be more appropriate if, say, I'd made a mistake, not owned up to it, and the lack of accountability has a negative impact. "Ah shit, that's totally broken. Sorry, that was my bad!" is more what I'd do and it's a lot less formal. I'm not really apologising or feeling any remorse. I didn't do anything immoral, here. What I'm really saying with "sorry" is "I am accountable for making this mistake and I will commit to fixing it." I hope this helps clarify the different meanings.
wasmitnetzen 3y ago
I have a hard rule of not apologizing for honest mistakes. If I took a decision with the best intentions and it was the right call with all the knowledge I had at the time, I don't apologize for it. I do apologize for mistakes due to laziness, shortcuts, emotionally charged decisions and the like. Things I knew at the time (or could have known) were not the optimal choice.
3y ago

sverhagen 3y ago

It's easy to disconnect the work from yourself if there are circumstances outside of yourself, like an unrealistic deadline. But your mood or level of experience (examples you gave) seem exactly the sort of thing that someone could use to blame themselves...

ilyt 3y ago
Or it being personal pet project, whether privately or at work
dusted 3y ago
Kind of, but, my mood is not me.. I can be in a bad mood, I can be tired, there can be any number of reasons I'm not living up to my expectations of my normal output.. but that's still not _me_, it's part of the circumstance in which the work is done, and if it sucks, it sucks, doesn't make me suck any more or less. I've done pretty decent stuff, I've done pretty silly mistakes. Thing is, that decent stuff, probably came at just the right time.. The silly mistakes, they probably seemed right at the moment, either due to some lack of information that I should have had, or something I simply hadn't learned yet.

informalo 3y ago

There is an excellent TED talk on the relationship between self-worth and procrastination that also, like you, makes a point about separating "me and my work" [1]. Watching this about a year ago was eye opening to me and I wished I'd found this video when I started studying in college! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52lZmIafep4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52lZmIafep4

Detrytus 3y ago
Well, I have a problem here, because other than work there's not much going on in my life. No wife or kids, no fancy hobbies... I guess I really need to get more social :)
- AlwaysRock 3y ago
  This was a big issue for me in my early 20s. I did a lot of work to ensure that my life outside of work was as interesting to me as my work life. If you don't have that balance, it is really hard to disconnect your work from your self-worth.

tbrownaw 3y ago

> In other words, the quality of my work depends much more on what the particular task was, than on some inherent quality within myself. Each individual piece of work separately, sure. In aggregate, anything that doesn't average out probably points at something to work on learning.