6 ms·

Usually review feedback is not that harsh though. It's not like "This is complete shit, please start over!" It's usally things like "If you used this pattern in

Usually review feedback is not that harsh though. It's not like "This is complete shit, please start over!" It's usally things like "If you used this pattern in this area, it would become easier to read" or even more trivial "This variable has a generic name, please make it more expressive" or whatever...

torstenvl 3y ago
I think I'm in the extreme minority on this, but in my view those responses go from least harsh to harshest. This is complete shit, start over. Even though there's vulgarity, it's explicitly directed at "this" and not "you." If the vulgarity is indicative of any frustration, then it means my work was below their expectations - which necessarily implies that they have come to expect more from my work. This is confirmed by their direction to start over, without any additional oversight or specific micromanagement. The boss who says this respects you, respects your work, and knows you can do better than this uncharacteristic example without them holding your hand. If you used this pattern in this area, it would become easier to read "You." This comment is directed at me and the choices I made. The comment uses the conditional - it isn't frustrated, it's wistful. The language is stilted and formal; they're keeping me at an arm's length. And easier to read? Humiliating that my thought process is that incoherent. This variable has a generic name, please make it more expressive. Very simple present tense statement, followed by very simple imperative. I'm clearly being handled. And please? They are literally begging me not to suck so bad. This isn't just arms-length language, this is you're-going-on-a-PIP-and-we're-being-careful-not-to-give-you-any-employment-law-leverage language. If someone ever gives me feedback like this, that's a sign I'm going to get fired.
- mjfisher 3y ago
  That reaction is really extreme; to the point I'm not quite sure if it's satire? If it's genuine, why not respond with "good call, will update" or "I couldn't think of anything better for this situation - do you have any suggestions?"
  - torstenvl 3y ago
    You appear to have replied to the wrong post
    - kortilla 3y ago
      No, your post comes across as sarcastic. “Please rename a variable” is in no way an indicator that you are borderline being PIPed. Additionally, that’s not even scratching the surface for HR documentation that is required for underperformance. It needs to be blatant “you are not meeting expectations” phrasing.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - mjfisher 3y ago
      No, actually - right post, but I might not have been specific enough. In particular that: This variable has a generic name, please make it more expressive is an indication you're heading to a PIP and a firing seems to be reading a huge amount of negativity into a comment that isn't warranted. Different cultures and work environments perhaps, but I've often written and received similarly terse statements on code reviews; it's just business as usual. As a rule, I have a huge amount of respect and value my team members - as I hope and believe they do for me. I do often (but not always) use the conditional rather than imperative tense as part of my British cultural baggage; but I doubt most people even consider that. Edit: on further reflection, I think the better relationship I have with the engineer in the code review, the comments get more terse. You can write extremely brief things like "should be private" or "missing type annotation" because you know the baseline working relationship has enough trust and mutual respect to support comments like that without offence.
      - torstenvl 3y ago
        That's... self-contradictory. Your edit is in complete agreement with me. Baseline working relationship has trust and respect: "should be private" Otherwise: "This is supposed to be encapsulated. Please make this variable private." Stilted, formal, directive language is not a hallmark of a healthy working relationship, and the number of replies to my comment here that seem to take the opposite position... is not encouraging.
- ilyt 3y ago
  The first one is utter garbage "This is complete shit because of X Y Z" is actionable "this is complete shit" is not. At what or who it is directed is irrelevant, it's useless. > The boss who says this respects you, respects your work, and knows you can do better than this uncharacteristic example without them holding your hand. Nope, because again, no indication why it his shit. >> If you used this pattern in this area, it would become easier to read > "You." This comment is directed at me and the choices I made. The comment uses the conditional - it isn't frustrated, it's wistful. The language is stilted and formal; they're keeping me at an arm's length. Yes, "you" prima-ballerina, you wrote it, take responsibility for it. > And easier to read? Humiliating that my thought process is that incoherent. You should be. Code is for reading. You should know that by now. It would be different if it was directed at junior dev but you should know better. Fix it and move on, everyone writes bad or unclear code sometimes. >> This variable has a generic name, please make it more expressive. > Very simple present tense statement, followed by very simple imperative. I'm clearly being handled. And please? They are literally begging me not to suck so bad. This isn't just arms-length language, this is you're-going-on-a-PIP-and-we're-being-careful-not-to-give-you-any-employment-law-leverage language. If someone ever gives me feedback like this, that's a sign I'm going to get fired. That's insanely weird assumptions you're making. Everyone makes bad code. Being polite is hedging your bet against how the other side answers to your feedback. If you know someone and you know their style "hey dude, this reads like shit, fix it" can be entirely enough and just fine, but if you don't know the person all that well being nice won't hurt. Not "you named variable weird, you're fired" like you're trying to interpret it

torstenvl 3y ago

I think I'm in the extreme minority on this, but in my view those responses go from least harsh to harshest. This is complete shit, start over. Even though there's vulgarity, it's explicitly directed at "this" and not "you." If the vulgarity is indicative of any frustration, then it means my work was below their expectations - which necessarily implies that they have come to expect more from my work. This is confirmed by their direction to start over, without any additional oversight or specific micromanagement. The boss who says this respects you, respects your work, and knows you can do better than this uncharacteristic example without them holding your hand. If you used this pattern in this area, it would become easier to read "You." This comment is directed at me and the choices I made. The comment uses the conditional - it isn't frustrated, it's wistful. The language is stilted and formal; they're keeping me at an arm's length. And easier to read? Humiliating that my thought process is that incoherent. This variable has a generic name, please make it more expressive. Very simple present tense statement, followed by very simple imperative. I'm clearly being handled. And please? They are literally begging me not to suck so bad. This isn't just arms-length language, this is you're-going-on-a-PIP-and-we're-being-careful-not-to-give-you-any-employment-law-leverage language. If someone ever gives me feedback like this, that's a sign I'm going to get fired.

mjfisher 3y ago
That reaction is really extreme; to the point I'm not quite sure if it's satire? If it's genuine, why not respond with "good call, will update" or "I couldn't think of anything better for this situation - do you have any suggestions?"
- torstenvl 3y ago
  You appear to have replied to the wrong post
  - kortilla 3y ago
    No, your post comes across as sarcastic. “Please rename a variable” is in no way an indicator that you are borderline being PIPed. Additionally, that’s not even scratching the surface for HR documentation that is required for underperformance. It needs to be blatant “you are not meeting expectations” phrasing.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - mjfisher 3y ago
    No, actually - right post, but I might not have been specific enough. In particular that: This variable has a generic name, please make it more expressive is an indication you're heading to a PIP and a firing seems to be reading a huge amount of negativity into a comment that isn't warranted. Different cultures and work environments perhaps, but I've often written and received similarly terse statements on code reviews; it's just business as usual. As a rule, I have a huge amount of respect and value my team members - as I hope and believe they do for me. I do often (but not always) use the conditional rather than imperative tense as part of my British cultural baggage; but I doubt most people even consider that. Edit: on further reflection, I think the better relationship I have with the engineer in the code review, the comments get more terse. You can write extremely brief things like "should be private" or "missing type annotation" because you know the baseline working relationship has enough trust and mutual respect to support comments like that without offence.
    - torstenvl 3y ago
      That's... self-contradictory. Your edit is in complete agreement with me. Baseline working relationship has trust and respect: "should be private" Otherwise: "This is supposed to be encapsulated. Please make this variable private." Stilted, formal, directive language is not a hallmark of a healthy working relationship, and the number of replies to my comment here that seem to take the opposite position... is not encouraging.
ilyt 3y ago
The first one is utter garbage "This is complete shit because of X Y Z" is actionable "this is complete shit" is not. At what or who it is directed is irrelevant, it's useless. > The boss who says this respects you, respects your work, and knows you can do better than this uncharacteristic example without them holding your hand. Nope, because again, no indication why it his shit. >> If you used this pattern in this area, it would become easier to read > "You." This comment is directed at me and the choices I made. The comment uses the conditional - it isn't frustrated, it's wistful. The language is stilted and formal; they're keeping me at an arm's length. Yes, "you" prima-ballerina, you wrote it, take responsibility for it. > And easier to read? Humiliating that my thought process is that incoherent. You should be. Code is for reading. You should know that by now. It would be different if it was directed at junior dev but you should know better. Fix it and move on, everyone writes bad or unclear code sometimes. >> This variable has a generic name, please make it more expressive. > Very simple present tense statement, followed by very simple imperative. I'm clearly being handled. And please? They are literally begging me not to suck so bad. This isn't just arms-length language, this is you're-going-on-a-PIP-and-we're-being-careful-not-to-give-you-any-employment-law-leverage language. If someone ever gives me feedback like this, that's a sign I'm going to get fired. That's insanely weird assumptions you're making. Everyone makes bad code. Being polite is hedging your bet against how the other side answers to your feedback. If you know someone and you know their style "hey dude, this reads like shit, fix it" can be entirely enough and just fine, but if you don't know the person all that well being nice won't hurt. Not "you named variable weird, you're fired" like you're trying to interpret it