7 ms·

Singapore Still the Best Place for Entrepreneurs

46 points by SuperChihuahua 15y ago

ccarnino 15y ago
I thought that Chile with its StartupChile was somewhere on the chart. As StartupChile alumn I can say that it is getting better doing business in Chile. For real!
- latch 15y ago
  Maybe I shouldn't base my opinion on a single story, but this is pretty much everything I know about Startup Chile (and it isn't good): http://hervalicio.us/post/14915671294/on-startup-chile http://hervalicio.us/post/14915671294/on-startup-chile
  - einhverfr 15y ago
    One thing to keep in mind here is never trust the governments in most countries. Find the rules, play by them, but if you are getting money from the government, don't do that as a foreigner. It's asking for trouble. Edit: I can't think of any government in the world where I would ask for money as a foreigner. That just strikes me as asking for serious trouble.
    - einhverfr 15y ago
      since my suggestion was downvoted, let me explain.... In every country, there is a fear of foreigners coming in to "take our jobs." A foreign businessman needs to be careful because any grants will be subject to the government having to deal with this fear. That doesn't mean don't take government contracts. But it does mean that if you are going to apply for government grants, you really want a national doing this for you. A second thing to think about is the problem of crony capitalism (think of no-bid Haliburton contracts in Iraq or former bank executives bailing out their buddies--- this is not that different in the US but is often more obvious in other countries). In general if you have good contacts, you can get good grants and contracts. If you do not, you cannot. As a foreigner you probably don't esp, if you are lured in with the hopes of government money. This is really a matter of being risk adverse. Only go for government help when you have the contacts to make it work effectively.
  - ccarnino 15y ago
    Herval is one of the few entrepreneurs who had a wrong approach (IMHO) to StartupChile. So expecations and what he got where not aligned. From my personal experience and the 99% of the SUP entrepreneurs I can say that it's a good program
- nirvana 15y ago
  Chile is pretty well ranked, coming in at #7 in the Heritage Foundation index, and #1 for Latin America.[1] We were accepted to Startup Chile, and will be flying to Chile next week. I can't report on the state of Chile now, but I did visit the country in 2001 and remember being impressed at the time at how capitalist it was, compared to the USA. (culturally capitalist, which is not the same as having an entrepreneurial culture, which Startup Chile is working to improve.) When you think about it, Startup Chile is a pretty audacious program. They put in twice the money of most bootstrapping programs, covering twice the period, and give you a 1 year visa for living and working in Chile. Can you imagine how hard it would be to get free one year visas for entrepreneurs coming to the USA? Even with a merit based contest like SU Chile? There's a distinct possibility that we may remain in Chile for several years after the program, provided that continuing the Visa doesn't turn out to be a problem (and the reports I've read indicate that its generally not a problem at all.) [1] http://www.heritage.org/index/default http://www.heritage.org/index/default
wyclif 15y ago
There is definitely something wrong with the "Georgia" flag.
- SuperChihuahua 15y ago
  Yeah - it looks like they took the flag from the state of Georgia in the US, not the country Georgia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state) Like that guy in the state of Georgia in the US who got scared when Russia "invaded" the country Georgia
einhverfr 15y ago
I know I will probably be down-modded for this, but I will add my $0.02 here. The more I travel and live overseas, the more I think the US is a lousy place for startups. Why? The regulatory climate in the US is fairly anti-small-business. Taxes are high but worse, they are complicated. The tax system is designed around the idea that people get paid fixed amounts. Those with variable incomes or the self-employed have a horrible time with estimated quarterly taxes esp if income fluctuates significantly. Compare this with Singapore: For the wealthiest, the taxes approach 30% of income and instead of a tax bracket system, you have a series of compounding taxes (something like 5% of income over 40k + 5 % of income over 50k etc). Every additional dollar you make puts something in your pocket. No nasty "I moved up a tax bracket and so I took home less this year!" surprises. Additionally the taxes aren't owed in the year assessed. They are owed the following year, and the government accepts monthly payments on those. Your income has to fluctuate terribly before that can be the end of it. Most other countries outside the US and Western Europe have much simpler tax codes, and the codes are more friendly towards small businesses (and even Western Europe is more friendly towards small businesses). In the US, however, multinational corporations can use the complexity to avoid paying taxes at all, and small businesses are heavily burdened. When you add new laws like PPACA, things just get worse. PPACA is based on the idea that employers are the primary means of supplying health insurance, so when you are trying to hire your first few employees, you are going to have to get an expensive plan since you can't likely get into the larger pools, but more to the point, this is the case even if you don't have to offer the insurance by law, since if you don't offer it, your employee has to buy it him/herself. Since health care in the US is phenominally expensive, this is a dramatic drag on startups (compare the cost of having a baby in the US to anywhere else in the world and explain why it costs so much to me here. It's not just the standard of care. It's because our system is broken and geared towards an ecosystem of big businesses making a ton of money off it, and the PPACA makes this worse, not better). Add to this the fact that the economic downturn has not created a major glut of high tech workers (in fact, quite the opposite), and it's just not the place I would say to work with right now. So my list of countries to startup businesses in right now include: Singapore Colombia Malaysia Indonesia Ecuador Chile Ghana These countries all have issues of their own but aside from Singapore, one thing they all have in common is a surplus of educated people, good education systems, and sufficient infrastructure. They also have some semblance of stability (even Colombia is slowly getting there). I don't think one is going to see superstars like Facebook coming from any of these countries. However I do think one will see a lot of good, solid businesses that will grow well, and prosper.
latch 15y ago
Looking at this without looking at the quantity and quality of available talent is the most absurd thing I've ever seen. It's easily the most important thing to measure, it's easily what would push the US near the top, but it's hard to measure, so..hey, let's just leave it out.
- einhverfr 15y ago
  What has saved the US so far is really a combination of a few things: The first is available talent but the advantage is not as great as you might think there. The second is the way our ivy league schools have functioned as networking hubs for folks starting businesses. But that then just is helpful if you already have money. The third has been the investor climate and the US financial strength. This is the factor that has traditionally tipped things heavily in the favor of the US. The problem with this assessment though is that it shows that if you are in the capital class in the US, you have a relatively easy time but if you are not, then you are more or less shut out. The only way to get a decent-sized business started for such people is to do it overseas.
  - latch 15y ago
    I live in Hong Kong, which this report ranked 2nd. In my opinion, the advantage is staggeringly MONUMENTAL.
cdf 15y ago
As a Singaporean, I have to agree Singapore is an excellent place for business, ON PAPER. Most of the pro-business comes from the fact that the government does not protect workers. Female employee pregnant? Feel free to pre-emptively fire her, as long as it is not 6 months before the baby is due. (Even the 6 months is a relatively new ruling, used to be ok till the baby pops). Found a cheaper employee? Feel free to fire the existing one. No reasons need to be given. Employment at will, they call it. As you may imagine, the employees reciprocates this regime by displaying little loyalty. You only need the smallest pay rise to prise away a rival's employee. So good luck starting a business here. There is a reason why Singapore is dominated by MNCs and government owned conglomerates while small enterprises have unnaturally high failure rate, despite being so startup friendly, on paper.
- einhverfr 15y ago
  One of the big reasons I am looking at expanding into Singapore is it is a major regional commercial hub. This may off-set some of this in some ways. However, I find your points very valuable and will certainly keep them in mind as I proceed (obviously it would only happen when partnering with a Singaporean who is already in the field so to speak).
- saturn 15y ago
  What kind of business are you talking about? Your comment sounds very "labour vs. capital", is it relevant to the kind of start-up commonly discussed here? If I started a business in Singapore (and I have been considering it) I would be hiring employees that I liked and respected, and I'd pay them fairly. I can't imagine that I'd fire them "at will" because I found someone a few bucks cheaper, or that they'd abandon me for a few bucks more. I can't imagine high-value knowledge workers playing these kind of games. Maybe discount supermarkets poach each other's check-out workers but rails programmers? And even if you were hiring relatively blue collar workers, eg if you were setting up a factory, it seems to me that the fact of being in a hands-off regulatory environment would make employees respond even better to being treated well. Just because in theory you can get away with acting like an asshole, doesn't mean you have to, or it is wise for you to do so.
alizaki 15y ago
This is way too generic. There can be no one best place for entrepreneurs because the natural ideal location is where your customers are (as a startup, you'll more often than not tend to have real customers in one specific geography first). That's your best place. I think this should read: if you're customers are in South East Asia, you're amongst the luckiest entrepreneurs in the world.
kylemaxwell 15y ago
There are other considerations regarding Singapore, like what many of us consider civil rights so basic that they should be human rights (freedom of speech and expression, for example), not to mention caning and hanging. Low tax rates and business regulation should not be our only concerns in building the future.
- nirvana 15y ago
  In the USA, your domain can be seized by the government at any time without any trial, and without any recourse. If you report abuse you received from a police officer, you risk being killed by that officer and it being made to look like you were in the commission of a crime at the time. I can't think of a single basic human right that is universally respected in the USA, and this goes from the right of self defense to the right of self determination or the freedom of association. I'll take being caned over being killed any day. There are always tradeoffs.
  - kylemaxwell 15y ago
    I certainly wasn't holding up the US as a great example of human rights, and I didn't mention it at all in my post. :)
    - nirvana 15y ago
      I didn't mean to rebut you so directly, but was using your mention of these things that were widely reported in the US media as an opportunity to compare.
  - fckin 15y ago
    Awesome, HN is becoming reddit where every post that isn't bashing America has to be "BUT AMERICA"
- cdf 15y ago
  Caning and hanging in Singapore is really nothing to worry about unless you cannot live without pot or vandalising cars. Criticising the government OTOH, can get you in loads of trouble. Google "Chia Thye Poh" to find more about one of the longest held political prisoner in the world, without trial by the way. Or "Alan Shadrake" for Singapore's treatment of foreigners who dared to criticise the government. Singapore in general has little respect for human decency, and the population is long conditioned to keep our mouths shut and focus on chasing money. You will not find Singaporeans protesting for rights or against injustice, because we dont dare and we cannot afford to. If this contempt for human rights bother you, Singapore can be rather uncomfortable.
jwingy 15y ago
Entrepreneur is one thing - a tech entrepreneur is another. I don't think you can compare the labor pool and funding climate in SE Asia to the U.S. Plus the large, homogeneous, wealthy market of the U.S. is really the key to all this if you're looking to do a typical high growth tech startup. Certainly Singapore has its advantages, but I think you'd be hard pressed to value them more highly over the factors I mentioned.
- nirvana 15y ago
  You touched on a number of points, and while I'm not an expert in Singapore, I have been operating my startup outside the USA for the past 4 years. Entrepreneur vs High Tech Entrepreneur: This is a reasonable distinction, so I'm going to only talk about high tech. High tech, to me, means, the internet plays a key part in the product, and in my case, it is where the entirety of the product lives. So, software and virtual goods or information or services, rather than a factory and manufacturing, etc. Labor Pool: The labor pool for a high tech company is global. I don't care where an employee is working, and the companies I admire are very globally diverse. This is becoming increasingly common it seems- for instance one engineer I know of is living on a beach in Thailand working for a US company ostensibly based in Boston (but with employees in at least a dozen countries and states.) So, the labor pool is global, for high tech businesses (not so much when you need a factory.) Funding Climate- Yes, if your business is selling stock in your business, then you want to be located within an easy board meeting commute of Sand Hill Road. But one of the aspects of high tech business these days is that the funding needed is vastly smaller than before... you can self fund if you're a highly paid employee who lives frugally and puts away $40k a year for 5 years, for instance. There does seem to be a segment of the population that thinks "high tech startup" is only that segment of companies that are trying to be the next facebook-- that is, bets on really long odds that require large amounts of outside capital. I think that's kinda silly when you can self fund and pursue businesses with much better odds, and thus have risk adjusted returns vastly higher. (would you rather have a %1 chance at being a billionaire, or a %75 chance at being deci-millionaire?) The large, homogeneous, wealthy market of the USA: Can be addressed by businesses anywhere. There's no need to locate in the USA to address the US market. Further, in many business areas, the US market is less than half. For instance, I'm currently earning around %35 of revenue from the USA, with the majority coming from overseas, non-english speaking countries, because I simply took the time to translate the product into those languages. I don't even know the cultures, and haven't advertised to them, etc. But they are the majority of my income. I think the USA wins on venture capital, sure, but loses in just about every other regard. Plus, if your company has X amount in capital, would it be better to be located in the Bay Area where your burn rate will be 6-10 times as much as it might be in, say, Thailand? I know americans think that America is number one in a large number of areas... but once I left america, I started to see that the american perspective on the world is pretty distorted.
hc8217 15y ago
The sky-high cost of everything needs to be factored in. Paying an engineer $100k a year will get them a lower standard of living than $50k would get them in Northern California.
wilfra 15y ago
Singapore is one of the most expensive places in the world to live and do business. If you are Eduardo Saverin, maybe Singapore looks great. If you are looking to bootstrap, probably not the best location.
nirvana 15y ago
I'm curious as one of the places Singapore highly ranked was the difficulty in starting a business. Yet it seems from the company formation services online, Singapore costs around $5,000 to open a business. (compared to $50 in Texas, for instance). I would think if it is straightforward (and really starting a business is nothing more than registering it with the government so they can tax you-- essentially the creation of a database entry) -- why is it so expensive? Maybe it can be done online for cheap, and thus those who are charging all that money are people who are giving a lot of advice. (I haven't looked into it closely.)
- ArchD 15y ago
  "$5,000 to open a business" -- citation?
- zackyap 15y ago
  It costs $300 SGD to register a company in Singapore. $5000 probably includes cost of other services such as legal and secretary fees.
  - nirvana 15y ago
    I think the issue is the requirement to have a registered director located in Singapore. Also, if you plan to apply for residency using the EntrePass it appears you need to have $50k SGD in "paid up capital", which is about $40,000 USD. I'm not sure what "paid up capital" means, though. (EG: is a business making $4,000 a year in profit valued at $40,000 thus considered to have $40k in paid up capital? Or does it mean you need to put $50k SGD in a local bank to sit there as a form of a bond?)
    - czcar 15y ago
      Ah, you're referring to the $3000 deposit + $3000/year requirement that professional nominated "Directors" require to setup the business. Yes, this can be an issue if you do not have relationships with any locals. I believe many countries have restrictions on foreigners incorporating without a local director/shareholder? But yes, it is a little bit annoying. What we ended up doing is getting a mentor/investor to become a nominee director.
mrschwabe 15y ago
Singapore is an excellent example of how easy it is for governments to encourage a vibrant economy. 40 years ago it was literally a third world country. They changed strategy and it wasn't rocket science. Less taxes, less interference = thriving business environment.
- cdf 15y ago
  "Less interference"? The Singapore government left their fingerprints everywhere here. If you want to hold Singapore up as an example, you are really advocating the government poking their nose into everything. How would you like to have all your telcos, transportation companies, media companies, all owned or controlled by the government? Welcome to Singapore.
  - mrschwabe 15y ago
    True, true - my bad - the tax structure is pro-enterprise but you're exactly right the government there is overreaching. And not setting a good example for civil liberties either - a bag of weed can get you sent for execution!
kschua 15y ago
Arguments aside, this is just a starting point for those who wish to set up a business in Singapore. 1) www.acra.gov.sg - Companies and businesses need to be registered with the authority. There is information here on the type of companies you can set up etc 2) http://www.edb.gov.sg/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/Guide_to_Investing_in_Singapore.html http://www.edb.gov.sg/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/Guide.... Another government site to get you started 3) Setting up offshore office. You can do a google search for "virtual office singapore". These guys provide a basic address which you can use when you register a business. If you are setting up a Private Limited company in Singapore, you will need a company secretary, which most of these virtual office will also provide for a price. Most also have a package where you can get everything ie registering a business, company secretary, virtual address for a year for less than SGD $1000
rbanffy 15y ago
I'd suggest using the ballot and the soap boxes first.
Too 15y ago
Uhhh, based on what?? This is just a long list of countries on a top list without any specific measures or anything. The only explanation is that it's best in some other field but that position is equally unexplained. I'm not doubting Singapore or the rest of the countries can be good for entrepreneurs but this infographic is just fluff.
hogu 15y ago
can anyone comment on tech scene? I might be moving there in a few years

I thought that Chile with its StartupChile was somewhere on the chart. As StartupChile alumn I can say that it is getting better doing business in Chile. For real!

latch 15y ago
Maybe I shouldn't base my opinion on a single story, but this is pretty much everything I know about Startup Chile (and it isn't good): http://hervalicio.us/post/14915671294/on-startup-chile http://hervalicio.us/post/14915671294/on-startup-chile
- einhverfr 15y ago
  One thing to keep in mind here is never trust the governments in most countries. Find the rules, play by them, but if you are getting money from the government, don't do that as a foreigner. It's asking for trouble. Edit: I can't think of any government in the world where I would ask for money as a foreigner. That just strikes me as asking for serious trouble.
  - einhverfr 15y ago
    since my suggestion was downvoted, let me explain.... In every country, there is a fear of foreigners coming in to "take our jobs." A foreign businessman needs to be careful because any grants will be subject to the government having to deal with this fear. That doesn't mean don't take government contracts. But it does mean that if you are going to apply for government grants, you really want a national doing this for you. A second thing to think about is the problem of crony capitalism (think of no-bid Haliburton contracts in Iraq or former bank executives bailing out their buddies--- this is not that different in the US but is often more obvious in other countries). In general if you have good contacts, you can get good grants and contracts. If you do not, you cannot. As a foreigner you probably don't esp, if you are lured in with the hopes of government money. This is really a matter of being risk adverse. Only go for government help when you have the contacts to make it work effectively.
- ccarnino 15y ago
  Herval is one of the few entrepreneurs who had a wrong approach (IMHO) to StartupChile. So expecations and what he got where not aligned. From my personal experience and the 99% of the SUP entrepreneurs I can say that it's a good program
nirvana 15y ago
Chile is pretty well ranked, coming in at #7 in the Heritage Foundation index, and #1 for Latin America.[1] We were accepted to Startup Chile, and will be flying to Chile next week. I can't report on the state of Chile now, but I did visit the country in 2001 and remember being impressed at the time at how capitalist it was, compared to the USA. (culturally capitalist, which is not the same as having an entrepreneurial culture, which Startup Chile is working to improve.) When you think about it, Startup Chile is a pretty audacious program. They put in twice the money of most bootstrapping programs, covering twice the period, and give you a 1 year visa for living and working in Chile. Can you imagine how hard it would be to get free one year visas for entrepreneurs coming to the USA? Even with a merit based contest like SU Chile? There's a distinct possibility that we may remain in Chile for several years after the program, provided that continuing the Visa doesn't turn out to be a problem (and the reports I've read indicate that its generally not a problem at all.) [1] http://www.heritage.org/index/default http://www.heritage.org/index/default

wyclif 15y ago

There is definitely something wrong with the "Georgia" flag.

SuperChihuahua 15y ago
Yeah - it looks like they took the flag from the state of Georgia in the US, not the country Georgia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state) Like that guy in the state of Georgia in the US who got scared when Russia "invaded" the country Georgia

einhverfr 15y ago

I know I will probably be down-modded for this, but I will add my $0.02 here. The more I travel and live overseas, the more I think the US is a lousy place for startups. Why? The regulatory climate in the US is fairly anti-small-business. Taxes are high but worse, they are complicated. The tax system is designed around the idea that people get paid fixed amounts. Those with variable incomes or the self-employed have a horrible time with estimated quarterly taxes esp if income fluctuates significantly. Compare this with Singapore: For the wealthiest, the taxes approach 30% of income and instead of a tax bracket system, you have a series of compounding taxes (something like 5% of income over 40k + 5 % of income over 50k etc). Every additional dollar you make puts something in your pocket. No nasty "I moved up a tax bracket and so I took home less this year!" surprises. Additionally the taxes aren't owed in the year assessed. They are owed the following year, and the government accepts monthly payments on those. Your income has to fluctuate terribly before that can be the end of it. Most other countries outside the US and Western Europe have much simpler tax codes, and the codes are more friendly towards small businesses (and even Western Europe is more friendly towards small businesses). In the US, however, multinational corporations can use the complexity to avoid paying taxes at all, and small businesses are heavily burdened. When you add new laws like PPACA, things just get worse. PPACA is based on the idea that employers are the primary means of supplying health insurance, so when you are trying to hire your first few employees, you are going to have to get an expensive plan since you can't likely get into the larger pools, but more to the point, this is the case even if you don't have to offer the insurance by law, since if you don't offer it, your employee has to buy it him/herself. Since health care in the US is phenominally expensive, this is a dramatic drag on startups (compare the cost of having a baby in the US to anywhere else in the world and explain why it costs so much to me here. It's not just the standard of care. It's because our system is broken and geared towards an ecosystem of big businesses making a ton of money off it, and the PPACA makes this worse, not better). Add to this the fact that the economic downturn has not created a major glut of high tech workers (in fact, quite the opposite), and it's just not the place I would say to work with right now. So my list of countries to startup businesses in right now include: Singapore Colombia Malaysia Indonesia Ecuador Chile Ghana These countries all have issues of their own but aside from Singapore, one thing they all have in common is a surplus of educated people, good education systems, and sufficient infrastructure. They also have some semblance of stability (even Colombia is slowly getting there). I don't think one is going to see superstars like Facebook coming from any of these countries. However I do think one will see a lot of good, solid businesses that will grow well, and prosper.

latch 15y ago

Looking at this without looking at the quantity and quality of available talent is the most absurd thing I've ever seen. It's easily the most important thing to measure, it's easily what would push the US near the top, but it's hard to measure, so..hey, let's just leave it out.

einhverfr 15y ago
What has saved the US so far is really a combination of a few things: The first is available talent but the advantage is not as great as you might think there. The second is the way our ivy league schools have functioned as networking hubs for folks starting businesses. But that then just is helpful if you already have money. The third has been the investor climate and the US financial strength. This is the factor that has traditionally tipped things heavily in the favor of the US. The problem with this assessment though is that it shows that if you are in the capital class in the US, you have a relatively easy time but if you are not, then you are more or less shut out. The only way to get a decent-sized business started for such people is to do it overseas.
- latch 15y ago
  I live in Hong Kong, which this report ranked 2nd. In my opinion, the advantage is staggeringly MONUMENTAL.

cdf 15y ago

As a Singaporean, I have to agree Singapore is an excellent place for business, ON PAPER. Most of the pro-business comes from the fact that the government does not protect workers. Female employee pregnant? Feel free to pre-emptively fire her, as long as it is not 6 months before the baby is due. (Even the 6 months is a relatively new ruling, used to be ok till the baby pops). Found a cheaper employee? Feel free to fire the existing one. No reasons need to be given. Employment at will, they call it. As you may imagine, the employees reciprocates this regime by displaying little loyalty. You only need the smallest pay rise to prise away a rival's employee. So good luck starting a business here. There is a reason why Singapore is dominated by MNCs and government owned conglomerates while small enterprises have unnaturally high failure rate, despite being so startup friendly, on paper.

einhverfr 15y ago
One of the big reasons I am looking at expanding into Singapore is it is a major regional commercial hub. This may off-set some of this in some ways. However, I find your points very valuable and will certainly keep them in mind as I proceed (obviously it would only happen when partnering with a Singaporean who is already in the field so to speak).
saturn 15y ago
What kind of business are you talking about? Your comment sounds very "labour vs. capital", is it relevant to the kind of start-up commonly discussed here? If I started a business in Singapore (and I have been considering it) I would be hiring employees that I liked and respected, and I'd pay them fairly. I can't imagine that I'd fire them "at will" because I found someone a few bucks cheaper, or that they'd abandon me for a few bucks more. I can't imagine high-value knowledge workers playing these kind of games. Maybe discount supermarkets poach each other's check-out workers but rails programmers? And even if you were hiring relatively blue collar workers, eg if you were setting up a factory, it seems to me that the fact of being in a hands-off regulatory environment would make employees respond even better to being treated well. Just because in theory you can get away with acting like an asshole, doesn't mean you have to, or it is wise for you to do so.

alizaki 15y ago

This is way too generic. There can be no one best place for entrepreneurs because the natural ideal location is where your customers are (as a startup, you'll more often than not tend to have real customers in one specific geography first). That's your best place. I think this should read: if you're customers are in South East Asia, you're amongst the luckiest entrepreneurs in the world.

kylemaxwell 15y ago

There are other considerations regarding Singapore, like what many of us consider civil rights so basic that they should be human rights (freedom of speech and expression, for example), not to mention caning and hanging. Low tax rates and business regulation should not be our only concerns in building the future.

nirvana 15y ago
In the USA, your domain can be seized by the government at any time without any trial, and without any recourse. If you report abuse you received from a police officer, you risk being killed by that officer and it being made to look like you were in the commission of a crime at the time. I can't think of a single basic human right that is universally respected in the USA, and this goes from the right of self defense to the right of self determination or the freedom of association. I'll take being caned over being killed any day. There are always tradeoffs.
- kylemaxwell 15y ago
  I certainly wasn't holding up the US as a great example of human rights, and I didn't mention it at all in my post. :)
  - nirvana 15y ago
    I didn't mean to rebut you so directly, but was using your mention of these things that were widely reported in the US media as an opportunity to compare.
- fckin 15y ago
  Awesome, HN is becoming reddit where every post that isn't bashing America has to be "BUT AMERICA"
cdf 15y ago
Caning and hanging in Singapore is really nothing to worry about unless you cannot live without pot or vandalising cars. Criticising the government OTOH, can get you in loads of trouble. Google "Chia Thye Poh" to find more about one of the longest held political prisoner in the world, without trial by the way. Or "Alan Shadrake" for Singapore's treatment of foreigners who dared to criticise the government. Singapore in general has little respect for human decency, and the population is long conditioned to keep our mouths shut and focus on chasing money. You will not find Singaporeans protesting for rights or against injustice, because we dont dare and we cannot afford to. If this contempt for human rights bother you, Singapore can be rather uncomfortable.

jwingy 15y ago

Entrepreneur is one thing - a tech entrepreneur is another. I don't think you can compare the labor pool and funding climate in SE Asia to the U.S. Plus the large, homogeneous, wealthy market of the U.S. is really the key to all this if you're looking to do a typical high growth tech startup. Certainly Singapore has its advantages, but I think you'd be hard pressed to value them more highly over the factors I mentioned.

nirvana 15y ago
You touched on a number of points, and while I'm not an expert in Singapore, I have been operating my startup outside the USA for the past 4 years. Entrepreneur vs High Tech Entrepreneur: This is a reasonable distinction, so I'm going to only talk about high tech. High tech, to me, means, the internet plays a key part in the product, and in my case, it is where the entirety of the product lives. So, software and virtual goods or information or services, rather than a factory and manufacturing, etc. Labor Pool: The labor pool for a high tech company is global. I don't care where an employee is working, and the companies I admire are very globally diverse. This is becoming increasingly common it seems- for instance one engineer I know of is living on a beach in Thailand working for a US company ostensibly based in Boston (but with employees in at least a dozen countries and states.) So, the labor pool is global, for high tech businesses (not so much when you need a factory.) Funding Climate- Yes, if your business is selling stock in your business, then you want to be located within an easy board meeting commute of Sand Hill Road. But one of the aspects of high tech business these days is that the funding needed is vastly smaller than before... you can self fund if you're a highly paid employee who lives frugally and puts away $40k a year for 5 years, for instance. There does seem to be a segment of the population that thinks "high tech startup" is only that segment of companies that are trying to be the next facebook-- that is, bets on really long odds that require large amounts of outside capital. I think that's kinda silly when you can self fund and pursue businesses with much better odds, and thus have risk adjusted returns vastly higher. (would you rather have a %1 chance at being a billionaire, or a %75 chance at being deci-millionaire?) The large, homogeneous, wealthy market of the USA: Can be addressed by businesses anywhere. There's no need to locate in the USA to address the US market. Further, in many business areas, the US market is less than half. For instance, I'm currently earning around %35 of revenue from the USA, with the majority coming from overseas, non-english speaking countries, because I simply took the time to translate the product into those languages. I don't even know the cultures, and haven't advertised to them, etc. But they are the majority of my income. I think the USA wins on venture capital, sure, but loses in just about every other regard. Plus, if your company has X amount in capital, would it be better to be located in the Bay Area where your burn rate will be 6-10 times as much as it might be in, say, Thailand? I know americans think that America is number one in a large number of areas... but once I left america, I started to see that the american perspective on the world is pretty distorted.

hc8217 15y ago

The sky-high cost of everything needs to be factored in. Paying an engineer $100k a year will get them a lower standard of living than $50k would get them in Northern California.

wilfra 15y ago

Singapore is one of the most expensive places in the world to live and do business. If you are Eduardo Saverin, maybe Singapore looks great. If you are looking to bootstrap, probably not the best location.

nirvana 15y ago

I'm curious as one of the places Singapore highly ranked was the difficulty in starting a business. Yet it seems from the company formation services online, Singapore costs around $5,000 to open a business. (compared to $50 in Texas, for instance). I would think if it is straightforward (and really starting a business is nothing more than registering it with the government so they can tax you-- essentially the creation of a database entry) -- why is it so expensive? Maybe it can be done online for cheap, and thus those who are charging all that money are people who are giving a lot of advice. (I haven't looked into it closely.)

ArchD 15y ago
"$5,000 to open a business" -- citation?
zackyap 15y ago
It costs $300 SGD to register a company in Singapore. $5000 probably includes cost of other services such as legal and secretary fees.
- nirvana 15y ago
  I think the issue is the requirement to have a registered director located in Singapore. Also, if you plan to apply for residency using the EntrePass it appears you need to have $50k SGD in "paid up capital", which is about $40,000 USD. I'm not sure what "paid up capital" means, though. (EG: is a business making $4,000 a year in profit valued at $40,000 thus considered to have $40k in paid up capital? Or does it mean you need to put $50k SGD in a local bank to sit there as a form of a bond?)
  - czcar 15y ago
    Ah, you're referring to the $3000 deposit + $3000/year requirement that professional nominated "Directors" require to setup the business. Yes, this can be an issue if you do not have relationships with any locals. I believe many countries have restrictions on foreigners incorporating without a local director/shareholder? But yes, it is a little bit annoying. What we ended up doing is getting a mentor/investor to become a nominee director.

mrschwabe 15y ago

Singapore is an excellent example of how easy it is for governments to encourage a vibrant economy. 40 years ago it was literally a third world country. They changed strategy and it wasn't rocket science. Less taxes, less interference = thriving business environment.

cdf 15y ago
"Less interference"? The Singapore government left their fingerprints everywhere here. If you want to hold Singapore up as an example, you are really advocating the government poking their nose into everything. How would you like to have all your telcos, transportation companies, media companies, all owned or controlled by the government? Welcome to Singapore.
- mrschwabe 15y ago
  True, true - my bad - the tax structure is pro-enterprise but you're exactly right the government there is overreaching. And not setting a good example for civil liberties either - a bag of weed can get you sent for execution!

kschua 15y ago

Arguments aside, this is just a starting point for those who wish to set up a business in Singapore. 1) www.acra.gov.sg - Companies and businesses need to be registered with the authority. There is information here on the type of companies you can set up etc 2) http://www.edb.gov.sg/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/Guide_to_Investing_in_Singapore.html http://www.edb.gov.sg/edb/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/Guide.... Another government site to get you started 3) Setting up offshore office. You can do a google search for "virtual office singapore". These guys provide a basic address which you can use when you register a business. If you are setting up a Private Limited company in Singapore, you will need a company secretary, which most of these virtual office will also provide for a price. Most also have a package where you can get everything ie registering a business, company secretary, virtual address for a year for less than SGD $1000

rbanffy 15y ago

I'd suggest using the ballot and the soap boxes first.

Too 15y ago

Uhhh, based on what?? This is just a long list of countries on a top list without any specific measures or anything. The only explanation is that it's best in some other field but that position is equally unexplained. I'm not doubting Singapore or the rest of the countries can be good for entrepreneurs but this infographic is just fluff.

hogu 15y ago

can anyone comment on tech scene? I might be moving there in a few years