4 ms·

Thats interesting, i don't see these as occupying the same space. Clickhouse is in the space of realtime analytics and Snowflake is a data warehouse. Although y

Thats interesting, i don't see these as occupying the same space. Clickhouse is in the space of realtime analytics and Snowflake is a data warehouse. Although you could use Clickhouse for similar things it will fail at doing large distributed joins and similarly Snowflake will have trouble meeting a subsecond SLO. also FWIW Clickhouse's cloud offering also decouples storage and compute using an object store, but they found a good middleground where they keep local caches of hot data.

riku_iki 3y ago
> doing large distributed joins but ch supports large distributed joins?..
- quadrature 3y ago
  Thanks, looks like i need to update my priors.
  - atwong 3y ago
    not really. CH times out on TPCH join scenarios. https://celerdata.com/blog/clickhouse-vs.-starrocks-a-detailed-comparison https://celerdata.com/blog/clickhouse-vs.-starrocks-a-detail...
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      that link doesn't provide much details how they try to test ch for joins, and if they tried to test it at all..
      - qoega 3y ago
        I think atwong just promotes his product https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=atwong https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=atwong
berkle4455 3y ago
ch cluster works just fine on large distributed joins
- atwong 3y ago
  not really. CH clusters timeout on join testing on TPCH. https://celerdata.com/blog/clickhouse-vs.-starrocks-a-detailed-comparison https://celerdata.com/blog/clickhouse-vs.-starrocks-a-detail...
FridgeSeal 3y ago
But CH is capable of the same “data warehousing” features that snowflake is. Which leaves snowflake as a slower, less capable, less open, and more expensive alternative. Which brings me to the next point: I’m convinced the delineation between “data warehouse” and “olap” is largely a marketing move designed to segment the market along made up boundaries.
- sv123 3y ago
  We use both MS SQL and Snowflake heavily. There are clearly instances where having row based storage is appropriate, and also instances where columnar storage outperforms. All based on your workload and not just marketing.
  - berkle4455 3y ago
    I don't think anyone disagrees with you. Clickhouse and Snowflake are both OLAP; neither are row-based (OLTP).
  - FridgeSeal 3y ago
    MSSQL is an OLTP based db (going to preclude discussion of its fancy column index stuff it’s capable of). OLTP db’s definitely, definitely have a different role. I’m talking about the false difference between the likes of ClickHouse and Snowflake, where they’re both column oriented already. I’m asserting that the fundamental differences between “classic” column db’s and “data warehouses” is far less fundamental than the marketing would have us believe. Some of the db’s in this space have slightly different architectures and trade offs, and some deliberately operate at different scales, but they are built for, and operate in, basically the same purpose.
  - fuy 3y ago
    There's columnar tables in SQL Server, though. Have you tried it? Would be interesting to compare to Snowflake.
    - FridgeSeal 3y ago
      As useful and powerful as the columnar tables in mssql are, they’re not on the same level as a full columnar db.

riku_iki 3y ago

> doing large distributed joins but ch supports large distributed joins?..

quadrature 3y ago
Thanks, looks like i need to update my priors.
- atwong 3y ago
  not really. CH times out on TPCH join scenarios. https://celerdata.com/blog/clickhouse-vs.-starrocks-a-detailed-comparison https://celerdata.com/blog/clickhouse-vs.-starrocks-a-detail...
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    that link doesn't provide much details how they try to test ch for joins, and if they tried to test it at all..
    - qoega 3y ago
      I think atwong just promotes his product https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=atwong https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=atwong

berkle4455 3y ago

ch cluster works just fine on large distributed joins

atwong 3y ago
not really. CH clusters timeout on join testing on TPCH. https://celerdata.com/blog/clickhouse-vs.-starrocks-a-detailed-comparison https://celerdata.com/blog/clickhouse-vs.-starrocks-a-detail...

FridgeSeal 3y ago

But CH is capable of the same “data warehousing” features that snowflake is. Which leaves snowflake as a slower, less capable, less open, and more expensive alternative. Which brings me to the next point: I’m convinced the delineation between “data warehouse” and “olap” is largely a marketing move designed to segment the market along made up boundaries.

sv123 3y ago
We use both MS SQL and Snowflake heavily. There are clearly instances where having row based storage is appropriate, and also instances where columnar storage outperforms. All based on your workload and not just marketing.
- berkle4455 3y ago
  I don't think anyone disagrees with you. Clickhouse and Snowflake are both OLAP; neither are row-based (OLTP).
- FridgeSeal 3y ago
  MSSQL is an OLTP based db (going to preclude discussion of its fancy column index stuff it’s capable of). OLTP db’s definitely, definitely have a different role. I’m talking about the false difference between the likes of ClickHouse and Snowflake, where they’re both column oriented already. I’m asserting that the fundamental differences between “classic” column db’s and “data warehouses” is far less fundamental than the marketing would have us believe. Some of the db’s in this space have slightly different architectures and trade offs, and some deliberately operate at different scales, but they are built for, and operate in, basically the same purpose.
- fuy 3y ago
  There's columnar tables in SQL Server, though. Have you tried it? Would be interesting to compare to Snowflake.
  - FridgeSeal 3y ago
    As useful and powerful as the columnar tables in mssql are, they’re not on the same level as a full columnar db.