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This reads as though these are already deployed. If that is so, why have we not seen them being used in Ukraine? Surely the ground based, city defenses lasers h

by jackdh 3y ago

This reads as though these are already deployed. If that is so, why have we not seen them being used in Ukraine? Surely the ground based, city defenses lasers he mentioned would be invaluable there?

jandrese 3y ago
As far as I know none of them have been deployed to Ukraine. They probably require specialized personnel to run so even if they did want to send them there the Ukraine government would have to send specialists off to training first. Plus, it seems like the Patriots are working better than expected, even shooting down "hypersonic" missiles, much to the embarrassment of the Russian military. I think this article has somewhat fallen into the imagined capabilities trap that US arms manufacturers were constantly in during the Cold War. They would see Soviet propaganda about their new invincible weapons system and do some math on what it would take to make it work and then try to design systems to counter that paper exercise. Then they get a sample of the real thing and it turns out the Soviets were outright lying about the capabilities and the counter they developed is ridiculous overkill.
golergka 3y ago
Because Russia is not firing ICBMs with megaton warheads at Kyiv yet.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  Well you wouldn't want to wait until that moment though, to deploy them.
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
We're giving Ukraine the old stuff. You keep the new stuff for yourself, if the old stuff turns out to not be good enough.
- isk517 3y ago
  You forgot the step where you use what you learned from the old stuff failing to develop even newer stuff, then hopefully you can give away the new old stuff and start the cycle again.
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-patriot-kinzhal-6b59af8e60853b4d6d16dd8d607768be https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-patriot-kinzha... Ukraine downs Russian hypersonic missile with US Patriot
- fuoqi 3y ago
  And those "downed" missiles somehow cause a "minor" damage to the Patriot battery doing it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36057675#36065364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36057675#36065364
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > those "downed" missiles somehow cause a "minor" damage to the Patriot battery doing it Thirty missiles were fired, twenty nine intercepted [1]. Sustaining minor, i.e. quickly repaired, damage after a 97% interception rate against a supposedly technologically advanced adversary is pretty damn good. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/falling-debris-causes-fires-two-kyiv-sites-officials-2023-05-18/#:~:text=May%2018%20(Reuters)%20%2D%20Ukraine,Ukrainian%20military%20said%20on%20Thursday https://www.reuters.com/world/falling-debris-causes-fires-tw....
    - fuoqi 3y ago
      For some reason, you forget the usual disclaimer "Ukraine says" and instead state it as a fact. It's hard to take them at face value similarly to their Russian counterparts. Also the "minor" claim is also maid by an interested party. If it was just a paint job, I think they would've preferred to simply stay silent on the matter. With available objective data we know that two explosions have happened on the ground level and that 2 launched Patriot missiles have failed, which is a fairly high value.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
        > we know that two explosions have happened on the ground level Site a source for that please. Do you think that when you "down" a hypersonic missile the debris fall harmlessly to the ground or do they continue moving?

by jackdh 3y ago

This reads as though these are already deployed. If that is so, why have we not seen them being used in Ukraine? Surely the ground based, city defenses lasers he mentioned would be invaluable there?

jandrese 3y ago

As far as I know none of them have been deployed to Ukraine. They probably require specialized personnel to run so even if they did want to send them there the Ukraine government would have to send specialists off to training first. Plus, it seems like the Patriots are working better than expected, even shooting down "hypersonic" missiles, much to the embarrassment of the Russian military. I think this article has somewhat fallen into the imagined capabilities trap that US arms manufacturers were constantly in during the Cold War. They would see Soviet propaganda about their new invincible weapons system and do some math on what it would take to make it work and then try to design systems to counter that paper exercise. Then they get a sample of the real thing and it turns out the Soviets were outright lying about the capabilities and the counter they developed is ridiculous overkill.

golergka 3y ago

Because Russia is not firing ICBMs with megaton warheads at Kyiv yet.

chrisco255 3y ago
Well you wouldn't want to wait until that moment though, to deploy them.

local_crmdgeon 3y ago

We're giving Ukraine the old stuff. You keep the new stuff for yourself, if the old stuff turns out to not be good enough.

isk517 3y ago
You forgot the step where you use what you learned from the old stuff failing to develop even newer stuff, then hopefully you can give away the new old stuff and start the cycle again.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-patriot-kinzhal-6b59af8e60853b4d6d16dd8d607768be https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-patriot-kinzha... Ukraine downs Russian hypersonic missile with US Patriot

fuoqi 3y ago
And those "downed" missiles somehow cause a "minor" damage to the Patriot battery doing it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36057675#36065364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36057675#36065364
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > those "downed" missiles somehow cause a "minor" damage to the Patriot battery doing it Thirty missiles were fired, twenty nine intercepted [1]. Sustaining minor, i.e. quickly repaired, damage after a 97% interception rate against a supposedly technologically advanced adversary is pretty damn good. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/falling-debris-causes-fires-two-kyiv-sites-officials-2023-05-18/#:~:text=May%2018%20(Reuters)%20%2D%20Ukraine,Ukrainian%20military%20said%20on%20Thursday https://www.reuters.com/world/falling-debris-causes-fires-tw....
  - fuoqi 3y ago
    For some reason, you forget the usual disclaimer "Ukraine says" and instead state it as a fact. It's hard to take them at face value similarly to their Russian counterparts. Also the "minor" claim is also maid by an interested party. If it was just a paint job, I think they would've preferred to simply stay silent on the matter. With available objective data we know that two explosions have happened on the ground level and that 2 launched Patriot missiles have failed, which is a fairly high value.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      > we know that two explosions have happened on the ground level Site a source for that please. Do you think that when you "down" a hypersonic missile the debris fall harmlessly to the ground or do they continue moving?