5 ms·

Wow, you are the type of person that put down new mediums. This attitude is more dangerous as it will inhibit the new art form's potential by putting it down in

Wow, you are the type of person that put down new mediums. This attitude is more dangerous as it will inhibit the new art form's potential by putting it down in favor of an old but more importantly different medium. Books and games are not exclusive to each other. Stop pulling down games when it wants to aspire to a great storytelling format. Stop imposing your cynicism when glimpses of ambition shows in games. Stop this shit.

glogla 15y ago
This is not about new media. There are great games who tell awesome story (I would suggest Planescape: Torment for the old ones, KOTOR2 for new ones, and Aquaria for the indie ones). This is about Mass Effect specifically, which is not really spectacular. It's power fantasy with good pacing and structure and it borrows from movies in ways of soundtracks and atmosphere, yes. But the universe it happens in is pretty boring compared to, say Eclipse Phase or The Culture, the "diversity" is laughable, and I would suggest that characters who are gay only in some playthroughs are pretty dangerous idea. I would on the other hand argue that Mass Effect series is bad for the video game industry -- for many people, it made voiced main character mainstream. That is bad, because it's very expensive, so not only it makes video gaming industry harder to enter for new businesses, it also makes even the rich studios trim dialogue and actual choice in game to the lowest common denominator. However once again, this is not about new media. Check works of Paul DeMarinis if you want new media, it's full of win.
- vacri 15y ago
  I don't understand why Planescape: Torment gets so much love. I tried it out because of the hype, and found it has an interesting world, but the story itself was pretty vanilla, and the engine was just another form of isometric D&D game. I was bored and gave up halfway though. Sure, the story might have improved towards the end, but a good story should have you throughout, and not make you drudge through the early stages.
  - unconed 15y ago
    Isn't it obvious? Torment wasn't a game, it was an interactive novel in disguise. The most interesting stuff in the game doesn't happen in the top half of the screen, it happens in the long lines of narrative and dialog at the bottom.
- fufulabs 15y ago
  I think you are missing the point here. Mass Effect is closer to "Games as a storytelling medium" than Planscape or KOTOR. Its an evolution. Its a step and the OP is slapping the author for celebrating the fact that science fiction THIS RICH is dedicated to A GAME. Not in the form of written text (Planescape / Kotor / Monkey Island) not static responses, not static characters. This fiction is highly integrated to a competent game system with high production values. Its not perfect but its an accomplishment nonetheless. I havent seen any games that have a custom universe this fleshed out and well planned.
  - nboshart 15y ago
    The author isn't talking about games though, nor is he really talking about "storytelling." He's saying that the philosophical bent and diversity of the game makes it the most important sci-fi universe. Your argument has a great angle, but as for godless diversity and the insignificance of man, Vernor Vinge has definitely been there before.
    - fufulabs 15y ago
      Magicians have this unspoken rule that whoever popularizes a trick owns it. Maybe the author, like me, didn't have the fortune of being exposed to Vernor Vinge. But be that as it may, there must be something commendable in how Bioware has chosen to integrate these concepts that Vernor pioneered and package/tweaked and EXTENDED it into something that is palatable to the masses (the new younger demographic at that) I am quite certain they needed to tone down hardcore parts of it for the game to be somewhat entertaining as you can see in their more in-depth exploration of the universe thru novels and comics. The future movie is a result of the success of the game. Hence the concepts of godless diversity and insignificance of men will have reached and incepted more minds. That is why its very important. But 'important' is a very subjective word so disagreement and put-downs are to be expected.
ynniv 15y ago
I am the type of person who is capable of critical thought. I love video games, and find that they are an interesting new medium. They are immediate, interactive, visual, auditory environments that have the potential to convey ideas that books, comics, and movies could not. Take Rohrer's Passage. Without saying a single word, you have an experience that presents a vague glimpse of the past and future while you navigate the present. There are goals that you can pursue (points, coverage, distance, tricky locations), but the limited time that you have in life only allows you to achieve some of them. You can choose to travel with a companion that makes you happier, but also logistically prevents you from going certain places. The potential of new media is in the ways in which it is different from previous media. An epic odyssey is better told by a respected elder in a social setting than by a a short, unresponsive, bright, noisy projection in a dark room. Literal emotion and visual environment is better portrayed through the lens of a camera than through a drawing or book. The problem is that you think that games are a great storytelling medium, and they are not. They are a complicated storytelling medium, and an attractive one, but until we see more powerful artificial intelligence, they are not a great one. The closest you currently get to great storytelling in games is the puppet box of Rohrer's Sleep is Death, where the storyteller is actually another human. So, go read a book, go watch a great movie, go tell a story to friends and family, and go play a great game. But don't tell me that a sophisticated, visually pleasing, well voice acted choose your own adventure game is a modern classic.

glogla 15y ago

This is not about new media. There are great games who tell awesome story (I would suggest Planescape: Torment for the old ones, KOTOR2 for new ones, and Aquaria for the indie ones). This is about Mass Effect specifically, which is not really spectacular. It's power fantasy with good pacing and structure and it borrows from movies in ways of soundtracks and atmosphere, yes. But the universe it happens in is pretty boring compared to, say Eclipse Phase or The Culture, the "diversity" is laughable, and I would suggest that characters who are gay only in some playthroughs are pretty dangerous idea. I would on the other hand argue that Mass Effect series is bad for the video game industry -- for many people, it made voiced main character mainstream. That is bad, because it's very expensive, so not only it makes video gaming industry harder to enter for new businesses, it also makes even the rich studios trim dialogue and actual choice in game to the lowest common denominator. However once again, this is not about new media. Check works of Paul DeMarinis if you want new media, it's full of win.

vacri 15y ago
I don't understand why Planescape: Torment gets so much love. I tried it out because of the hype, and found it has an interesting world, but the story itself was pretty vanilla, and the engine was just another form of isometric D&D game. I was bored and gave up halfway though. Sure, the story might have improved towards the end, but a good story should have you throughout, and not make you drudge through the early stages.
- unconed 15y ago
  Isn't it obvious? Torment wasn't a game, it was an interactive novel in disguise. The most interesting stuff in the game doesn't happen in the top half of the screen, it happens in the long lines of narrative and dialog at the bottom.
fufulabs 15y ago
I think you are missing the point here. Mass Effect is closer to "Games as a storytelling medium" than Planscape or KOTOR. Its an evolution. Its a step and the OP is slapping the author for celebrating the fact that science fiction THIS RICH is dedicated to A GAME. Not in the form of written text (Planescape / Kotor / Monkey Island) not static responses, not static characters. This fiction is highly integrated to a competent game system with high production values. Its not perfect but its an accomplishment nonetheless. I havent seen any games that have a custom universe this fleshed out and well planned.
- nboshart 15y ago
  The author isn't talking about games though, nor is he really talking about "storytelling." He's saying that the philosophical bent and diversity of the game makes it the most important sci-fi universe. Your argument has a great angle, but as for godless diversity and the insignificance of man, Vernor Vinge has definitely been there before.
  - fufulabs 15y ago
    Magicians have this unspoken rule that whoever popularizes a trick owns it. Maybe the author, like me, didn't have the fortune of being exposed to Vernor Vinge. But be that as it may, there must be something commendable in how Bioware has chosen to integrate these concepts that Vernor pioneered and package/tweaked and EXTENDED it into something that is palatable to the masses (the new younger demographic at that) I am quite certain they needed to tone down hardcore parts of it for the game to be somewhat entertaining as you can see in their more in-depth exploration of the universe thru novels and comics. The future movie is a result of the success of the game. Hence the concepts of godless diversity and insignificance of men will have reached and incepted more minds. That is why its very important. But 'important' is a very subjective word so disagreement and put-downs are to be expected.

ynniv 15y ago

I am the type of person who is capable of critical thought. I love video games, and find that they are an interesting new medium. They are immediate, interactive, visual, auditory environments that have the potential to convey ideas that books, comics, and movies could not. Take Rohrer's Passage. Without saying a single word, you have an experience that presents a vague glimpse of the past and future while you navigate the present. There are goals that you can pursue (points, coverage, distance, tricky locations), but the limited time that you have in life only allows you to achieve some of them. You can choose to travel with a companion that makes you happier, but also logistically prevents you from going certain places. The potential of new media is in the ways in which it is different from previous media. An epic odyssey is better told by a respected elder in a social setting than by a a short, unresponsive, bright, noisy projection in a dark room. Literal emotion and visual environment is better portrayed through the lens of a camera than through a drawing or book. The problem is that you think that games are a great storytelling medium, and they are not. They are a complicated storytelling medium, and an attractive one, but until we see more powerful artificial intelligence, they are not a great one. The closest you currently get to great storytelling in games is the puppet box of Rohrer's Sleep is Death, where the storyteller is actually another human. So, go read a book, go watch a great movie, go tell a story to friends and family, and go play a great game. But don't tell me that a sophisticated, visually pleasing, well voice acted choose your own adventure game is a modern classic.