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To be fair this is debt they take on willingly. How "willing" are the debtors when the whole system seems to built around the idea that a student will take out

To be fair this is debt they take on willingly. How "willing" are the debtors when the whole system seems to built around the idea that a student will take out a loan to pay for the education, an education which is priced around the idea that anyone that isn't wealthy takes out a loan? I mean, yeah, I guess they willingly went to college...

j_walter 3y ago
Lots of people take out loans and do so responsibly. I had 2 jobs in college and it helped pay for my room and board so that my loans were relatively small when I was done ($30Kish). It wasn't easy, but college is not supposed to be. I had classmates that did the same but used loans for room and board, spring break vacations, summers off and then were $100K+ in loans at the end. Now tell me I'm responsible to pay for their decisions...
- earthling8118 3y ago
  I worked 2 jobs basically the entire time I was in school. At one point it was 3 jobs. I was also a reservist in the military. I didn't go on any vacations, I worked through the summers, and I spent very little on joyous things. It was mostly just on school. I have $70k in loans. I also paid a boatload of cash directly to my tuition so my loans weren't even the full price. I don't care if it isn't supposed to be easy. It wasn't and to the day I am struggling with it. Something has to change. You can act like its a moral failure on the students' part all you want but that doesn't make this system sensible or sustainable.
  - j_walter 3y ago
    I would be a lot more for reducing the interest rate to 1% on all of these loans. You should not have money forgiven that you used, but also shouldn't be subject to interest rates that make paying off your debt that much harder. If we discharge a loan on a house or car your possession is confiscated no matter how much you had paid off...should the same go for your degree if you want to get out from under your student loan?
    - Bilal_io 3y ago
      And while at it, let's make it possible to default on student loans. Why can every loaded be defaulted except this one?
      - endisneigh 3y ago
        because when you default a loan there's collateral that generally exists. what collateral is there here? the result would be simply denying people who couldn't afford it outright, which may or may not be the solution.
        Turing_Machine 3y ago
        That's not at all true, in general. For instance, credit card debt is an unsecured debt. If you default, there's no "collateral" as such. As more direct comparable, consider the Small Business Administration's loan process. These loans are guaranteed by the federal government in essentially the same way as student loans or FA/VHA home loans. If Bob gets an SBA loan to start a restaurant (famously a bad risk...about 30% fail their first year) and it goes belly-up, he can file bankruptcy and eliminate the debt. That will ding his credit rating, but that's all. The government might (or might not) get a few thousand bucks from selling the restaurant equipment (commercial stoves, freezers, and such), but all the money spent on employee salaries, decorating (quite expensive), advertising, taxes, insurance... it's just gone, and the government can go whistle for it. Why is Bob allowed to file bankruptcy, while Steve, who took out a student loan, is not?
        endisneigh 3y ago
        You are correct however credit cards and credit scores go together and with low scores come low limits. There is no school loan analogue thus the situation. The only way to get around this would be for most to not be able to go to college with a loan at all, which isn’t going to happen. Also, though credit card debt is unsecured, the creditors can garnish your wages, and since your limit and hence debt scale, in effect they can generally take a high percentage back.
  - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
    Respectfully, did you have no options other than a 30k+/yr institution of the same or similar quality?
- skinnymuch 3y ago
  No one uses everything of a system they pay into. Many people pay taxes on things you use that they don’t. Many people weren’t given the opportunities nor had the privilege to be given basic social safety nets like a way to finish high school. Most people don’t have easy lives. No one loves to part with money to pay for the “decisions” of others. I quoted the word because i don’t understand the notion that people are making such major decisions independently of capitalisms grasp on all of us.
- 908B64B197 3y ago
  > were $100K+ in loans at the end. Now tell me I'm responsible to pay for their decisions... Don't forget you'll be told you are lazy for not affording a house unlike your friend who just had his debts cancelled and was able to save up!
  - j_walter 3y ago
    Well luckily I rented a small house and drove a 15 year old car for the first 2 years after graduating despite a decent income. Got my loans paid off and saved up for my first house. I've seen a lot of people graduate, get their first job and then buy a car that is more expensive than their yearly salary. "Well I want to be able to enjoy having an income now"...not doing the math on what that costs and what they will need to pay back. Adding a financial literacy course in high school and requiring completion of that course before getting loans for college should be a must.
MrZander 3y ago
I know plenty of non-wealthy people, myself included, who were able to pay for college by working. The answer is going to a school you can afford.

j_walter 3y ago

Lots of people take out loans and do so responsibly. I had 2 jobs in college and it helped pay for my room and board so that my loans were relatively small when I was done ($30Kish). It wasn't easy, but college is not supposed to be. I had classmates that did the same but used loans for room and board, spring break vacations, summers off and then were $100K+ in loans at the end. Now tell me I'm responsible to pay for their decisions...

earthling8118 3y ago
I worked 2 jobs basically the entire time I was in school. At one point it was 3 jobs. I was also a reservist in the military. I didn't go on any vacations, I worked through the summers, and I spent very little on joyous things. It was mostly just on school. I have $70k in loans. I also paid a boatload of cash directly to my tuition so my loans weren't even the full price. I don't care if it isn't supposed to be easy. It wasn't and to the day I am struggling with it. Something has to change. You can act like its a moral failure on the students' part all you want but that doesn't make this system sensible or sustainable.
- j_walter 3y ago
  I would be a lot more for reducing the interest rate to 1% on all of these loans. You should not have money forgiven that you used, but also shouldn't be subject to interest rates that make paying off your debt that much harder. If we discharge a loan on a house or car your possession is confiscated no matter how much you had paid off...should the same go for your degree if you want to get out from under your student loan?
  - Bilal_io 3y ago
    And while at it, let's make it possible to default on student loans. Why can every loaded be defaulted except this one?
    - endisneigh 3y ago
      because when you default a loan there's collateral that generally exists. what collateral is there here? the result would be simply denying people who couldn't afford it outright, which may or may not be the solution.
      - Turing_Machine 3y ago
        That's not at all true, in general. For instance, credit card debt is an unsecured debt. If you default, there's no "collateral" as such. As more direct comparable, consider the Small Business Administration's loan process. These loans are guaranteed by the federal government in essentially the same way as student loans or FA/VHA home loans. If Bob gets an SBA loan to start a restaurant (famously a bad risk...about 30% fail their first year) and it goes belly-up, he can file bankruptcy and eliminate the debt. That will ding his credit rating, but that's all. The government might (or might not) get a few thousand bucks from selling the restaurant equipment (commercial stoves, freezers, and such), but all the money spent on employee salaries, decorating (quite expensive), advertising, taxes, insurance... it's just gone, and the government can go whistle for it. Why is Bob allowed to file bankruptcy, while Steve, who took out a student loan, is not?
        endisneigh 3y ago
        You are correct however credit cards and credit scores go together and with low scores come low limits. There is no school loan analogue thus the situation. The only way to get around this would be for most to not be able to go to college with a loan at all, which isn’t going to happen. Also, though credit card debt is unsecured, the creditors can garnish your wages, and since your limit and hence debt scale, in effect they can generally take a high percentage back.
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  Respectfully, did you have no options other than a 30k+/yr institution of the same or similar quality?
skinnymuch 3y ago
No one uses everything of a system they pay into. Many people pay taxes on things you use that they don’t. Many people weren’t given the opportunities nor had the privilege to be given basic social safety nets like a way to finish high school. Most people don’t have easy lives. No one loves to part with money to pay for the “decisions” of others. I quoted the word because i don’t understand the notion that people are making such major decisions independently of capitalisms grasp on all of us.
908B64B197 3y ago
> were $100K+ in loans at the end. Now tell me I'm responsible to pay for their decisions... Don't forget you'll be told you are lazy for not affording a house unlike your friend who just had his debts cancelled and was able to save up!
- j_walter 3y ago
  Well luckily I rented a small house and drove a 15 year old car for the first 2 years after graduating despite a decent income. Got my loans paid off and saved up for my first house. I've seen a lot of people graduate, get their first job and then buy a car that is more expensive than their yearly salary. "Well I want to be able to enjoy having an income now"...not doing the math on what that costs and what they will need to pay back. Adding a financial literacy course in high school and requiring completion of that course before getting loans for college should be a must.

MrZander 3y ago

I know plenty of non-wealthy people, myself included, who were able to pay for college by working. The answer is going to a school you can afford.