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Anyone romanticizing physical work based on doing it as an unpaid hobby is not experiencing what it's like to actually rely on that kind of work to survive. You

Anyone romanticizing physical work based on doing it as an unpaid hobby is not experiencing what it's like to actually rely on that kind of work to survive. You aren't 'living like the common people do' because you do some work for your church sometimes. You're an otherwise rich tech worker who also likes to do physical things sometimes as part of a community. Working as a shift engineer at an industrial facility is not even remotely the same thing.

ransom1538 3y ago
"Anyone romanticizing physical work based on doing it as an unpaid hobby" Exactly. Being homeless is different than camping. One is a mental hell hole of despair. The other is fishing and laughing with friends.
- explaininjs 3y ago
  Homelessness is not a mental hell hole of despair, and claiming it is does more to dehumanize the homeless than anything. Being in a mental hell hole of disparity is a mental hell hole of despair, but that can come with any profession at any position on the socioeconomic ladder. (am homeless)
  - throwaway675309 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - evilos 3y ago
    "Being homeless is not always bad!" is not a take I was expecting to see today. I'd bet 99.99% of homeless people would extremely prefer not to be.
    - CogitoCogito 3y ago
      > I'd bet 99.99% of homeless people would extremely prefer not to be. I’m curious what /u/explaininjs would have to say about this given he/she claims to be homeless.
      - explaininjs 3y ago
        The real percentage is far smaller. I suspect the parent has only encountered homeless beggars, in the context of being begged at. If that’s all you knew I could see how you might think they hate it. In reality homeless place a higher value on personal freedom than most, and the absolute happiest people I’ve ever met were all homeless with no intention of being otherwise. For these, possessions often come from donations they receive from people they meet and develop real connections with.
        ransom1538 3y ago
        "I suspect the parent has only encountered homeless beggars, in the context of being begged at." Oh no. The complete opposite. I lived in SF 15 years, worked and talked to the homeless dozens of times. 99% [not mentally handicapped] are addicted to fentanyl, destroyed all their relationships, and are slowly dying. Trying to justify it as "freedom" is a bizarre comment. They tend to have ZERO freedom, trying to score another fix, in an endless loop - they have NO ability to do anything else. People in prison have more freedom IMHO. They need detox now.
        explaininjs 3y ago
        SF is an exception. They’ve been grossly mismanaged for years. I wouldn’t touch it with a 10’ pole. The homeless there get government cash to buy drugs and government hotel rooms to use them in. It’s expressly designed to select for the lowest common denominator, and it shouldn’t surprise anything that what they’ve received is exactly that. Though the UC Berkeley girls are very friendly…
        red-iron-pine 3y ago
        SF is no exception, and the "Berkeley girls are sluts" implication makes me wonder how homeless this poster is; reads like something a 60-year old former programmer with a grudge would say. My wife works in the homeless shelter / battered woman shelter sphere, and depression, drug use, and misery is widespread. Many of her clients, after getting sober, are deeply isolated, and many have few skills, few friends, and terrible self-esteem. Many straight-up don't care if they die, and the only thing motivating them on the day-to-day is avoiding withdrawal. This is nowhere near SF, but it's not like homelessness is magically different because you're in California.
    - aatd86 3y ago
      Yes, strange. Homeless yet posting on hackernews is not what the vast majority of homeless people are doing I bet. I've seen some people struggle and they didn't have that kind of leisure time. Perhaps it's homeless as in not owning an address? Don't know. Can happen given rent prices... Been there.
    - norgie 3y ago
      Where is that in the parent comment?
      - explaininjs 3y ago
        Thanks for this. All I said is we don’t live in a deep hole of despair. Sure parts are bad, but I don’t know of anyone who lives with absolutely no bad in their life.
        6510 3y ago
        Lots of wealthy people moan and whine all day long. It is arguably how one becomes wealthy. Lots of poor people are happy. It is arguably why they are poor. Life can hand you a good hand of cards or a bad one. Sure. How much that gets to you is up to you. I talk with a dying man one time who worked in a hospital for dying people. He asked for me because he knew dying people had the best conversations with those they didn't know intimately. The one thing that stuck with me was the contrast between 2 types of people, one kind screams and cries for 2 weeks straight, day and night "I'M GOING TO DIE!!" the other kind talks about all of the great things they experienced in their lives. He remembered one specifically who smiled and said: "I had a great life" then turned over in his bed and was gone. Before you can live in a deep hole of despair you first have to dig it yourself.
  - nerdchum 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- 6510 3y ago
  It is different in that you get to fish and laugh with friends the year round in stead of just 14 days recovery from that to-fast moving conveyor belt in that noisy stinking factory for that boss who hates you.
screwturner68 3y ago
I equate this to the people working with habitat for humanity (no offense it's a great program) but these people are for the most part cos playing construction workers. But there's no foreman busting your ass because you are moving too slow or the general disregard for safety because you only have 3 days to frame out the house and it rained yesterday. It's no different than when the CEO works the register at some coffee place or fast food joint -look at me I work hard just like the little people. It's a show, in the end they go back to their rarefied positions and their outrageous salary not understanding that somebody has to do that back breaking work every day and for a wage a lot people wouldn't get out of bed for. I'd also add that they likely did a shit job that would gt you fired if you weren't working for free. Do it everyday and live off the low wages for a year and then come back and tell me how fulfilling it is.
- 6510 3y ago
  > Do it everyday and live off the low wages for a year and then come back and tell me how fulfilling it is. That makes no difference, it is still a choice. As soon as you've figured out you can rub 2 stones together and make fire you will never [again] get to experience the cold nights as something unavoidable. Why do we work at all? Why not travel the world and enjoy ourselves? The only reason I can think of is that insecurity is terrifying. Then the next guy pulls his guitar out of its bag and people start throwing money in his hat. Escape velocity right there!
- mahogany 3y ago
  Huh, what an interesting and specific rant toward Habitat for Humanity volunteers. Is it your experience that those volunteers pretend to be "real" construction workers?
- patrick451 3y ago
  I worked in the trades for almost a decade before switching to tech. Frankly, manual labor is far more fulfilling than anything I've done in tech. I'd still be doing it if it paid more.
- notjtrig 3y ago
  Construction work isn't that hard or back breaking. One guy's operating a machine and one guy is spotting him, you drive a lot, take hour lunches, sleep in the machines. $25 an hour to start. Foreman's are usually busy with the people above them. I run a homestead as my primary means of surviving, it's similar work, 12 hour days, a fraction of the pay and pretty darn fulfilling.
dzhiurgis 3y ago
This does distort the market for everyone who actually try to get paid for cleaning and mechanical work…

ransom1538 3y ago

"Anyone romanticizing physical work based on doing it as an unpaid hobby" Exactly. Being homeless is different than camping. One is a mental hell hole of despair. The other is fishing and laughing with friends.

explaininjs 3y ago
Homelessness is not a mental hell hole of despair, and claiming it is does more to dehumanize the homeless than anything. Being in a mental hell hole of disparity is a mental hell hole of despair, but that can come with any profession at any position on the socioeconomic ladder. (am homeless)
- throwaway675309 3y ago
  [flagged]
- evilos 3y ago
  "Being homeless is not always bad!" is not a take I was expecting to see today. I'd bet 99.99% of homeless people would extremely prefer not to be.
  - CogitoCogito 3y ago
    > I'd bet 99.99% of homeless people would extremely prefer not to be. I’m curious what /u/explaininjs would have to say about this given he/she claims to be homeless.
    - explaininjs 3y ago
      The real percentage is far smaller. I suspect the parent has only encountered homeless beggars, in the context of being begged at. If that’s all you knew I could see how you might think they hate it. In reality homeless place a higher value on personal freedom than most, and the absolute happiest people I’ve ever met were all homeless with no intention of being otherwise. For these, possessions often come from donations they receive from people they meet and develop real connections with.
      - ransom1538 3y ago
        "I suspect the parent has only encountered homeless beggars, in the context of being begged at." Oh no. The complete opposite. I lived in SF 15 years, worked and talked to the homeless dozens of times. 99% [not mentally handicapped] are addicted to fentanyl, destroyed all their relationships, and are slowly dying. Trying to justify it as "freedom" is a bizarre comment. They tend to have ZERO freedom, trying to score another fix, in an endless loop - they have NO ability to do anything else. People in prison have more freedom IMHO. They need detox now.
        explaininjs 3y ago
        SF is an exception. They’ve been grossly mismanaged for years. I wouldn’t touch it with a 10’ pole. The homeless there get government cash to buy drugs and government hotel rooms to use them in. It’s expressly designed to select for the lowest common denominator, and it shouldn’t surprise anything that what they’ve received is exactly that. Though the UC Berkeley girls are very friendly…
        red-iron-pine 3y ago
        SF is no exception, and the "Berkeley girls are sluts" implication makes me wonder how homeless this poster is; reads like something a 60-year old former programmer with a grudge would say. My wife works in the homeless shelter / battered woman shelter sphere, and depression, drug use, and misery is widespread. Many of her clients, after getting sober, are deeply isolated, and many have few skills, few friends, and terrible self-esteem. Many straight-up don't care if they die, and the only thing motivating them on the day-to-day is avoiding withdrawal. This is nowhere near SF, but it's not like homelessness is magically different because you're in California.
  - aatd86 3y ago
    Yes, strange. Homeless yet posting on hackernews is not what the vast majority of homeless people are doing I bet. I've seen some people struggle and they didn't have that kind of leisure time. Perhaps it's homeless as in not owning an address? Don't know. Can happen given rent prices... Been there.
  - norgie 3y ago
    Where is that in the parent comment?
    - explaininjs 3y ago
      Thanks for this. All I said is we don’t live in a deep hole of despair. Sure parts are bad, but I don’t know of anyone who lives with absolutely no bad in their life.
      - 6510 3y ago
        Lots of wealthy people moan and whine all day long. It is arguably how one becomes wealthy. Lots of poor people are happy. It is arguably why they are poor. Life can hand you a good hand of cards or a bad one. Sure. How much that gets to you is up to you. I talk with a dying man one time who worked in a hospital for dying people. He asked for me because he knew dying people had the best conversations with those they didn't know intimately. The one thing that stuck with me was the contrast between 2 types of people, one kind screams and cries for 2 weeks straight, day and night "I'M GOING TO DIE!!" the other kind talks about all of the great things they experienced in their lives. He remembered one specifically who smiled and said: "I had a great life" then turned over in his bed and was gone. Before you can live in a deep hole of despair you first have to dig it yourself.
- nerdchum 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
6510 3y ago
It is different in that you get to fish and laugh with friends the year round in stead of just 14 days recovery from that to-fast moving conveyor belt in that noisy stinking factory for that boss who hates you.

screwturner68 3y ago

I equate this to the people working with habitat for humanity (no offense it's a great program) but these people are for the most part cos playing construction workers. But there's no foreman busting your ass because you are moving too slow or the general disregard for safety because you only have 3 days to frame out the house and it rained yesterday. It's no different than when the CEO works the register at some coffee place or fast food joint -look at me I work hard just like the little people. It's a show, in the end they go back to their rarefied positions and their outrageous salary not understanding that somebody has to do that back breaking work every day and for a wage a lot people wouldn't get out of bed for. I'd also add that they likely did a shit job that would gt you fired if you weren't working for free. Do it everyday and live off the low wages for a year and then come back and tell me how fulfilling it is.

6510 3y ago
> Do it everyday and live off the low wages for a year and then come back and tell me how fulfilling it is. That makes no difference, it is still a choice. As soon as you've figured out you can rub 2 stones together and make fire you will never [again] get to experience the cold nights as something unavoidable. Why do we work at all? Why not travel the world and enjoy ourselves? The only reason I can think of is that insecurity is terrifying. Then the next guy pulls his guitar out of its bag and people start throwing money in his hat. Escape velocity right there!
mahogany 3y ago
Huh, what an interesting and specific rant toward Habitat for Humanity volunteers. Is it your experience that those volunteers pretend to be "real" construction workers?
patrick451 3y ago
I worked in the trades for almost a decade before switching to tech. Frankly, manual labor is far more fulfilling than anything I've done in tech. I'd still be doing it if it paid more.
notjtrig 3y ago
Construction work isn't that hard or back breaking. One guy's operating a machine and one guy is spotting him, you drive a lot, take hour lunches, sleep in the machines. $25 an hour to start. Foreman's are usually busy with the people above them. I run a homestead as my primary means of surviving, it's similar work, 12 hour days, a fraction of the pay and pretty darn fulfilling.

dzhiurgis 3y ago

This does distort the market for everyone who actually try to get paid for cleaning and mechanical work…