5 ms·

Frankly I think the problem of student debt is so large and so burdensome on the younger population that I don't really care if they're considered "underperform

Frankly I think the problem of student debt is so large and so burdensome on the younger population that I don't really care if they're considered "underperforming assets" or whatever. The more money this generation spends on debt the less they have to buy houses and have children, and I personally will benefit from them being able to buy my house when I'm old and want to downsize and them having children so that there will be income into social security when I'm retired. All in all I would consider it an investment into my future retirement by ensuring the younger generation can support me.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
Hey man. Some of us are GenX who took significant opportunity costs to pay down our student loan debt. Don't make us compete for our first house with jubileed Millennials and GenZers. We can't afford to do that and save for retirement as is (though at this point I can't afford to do either. Glad I have a pension).
- ejstronge 3y ago
  At the same time, your education costs were much lower - through no fault of your own. Why should younger borrowers be penalized for market forces they did not contribute to?
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    I finished my AS and BS as a non-trad at the ages of 29 and 35. I'm currently in my mid 40s. Debt from my AS was paid by my parents, but the $31k in student loan debt and $20k in credit card debt for my BS was paid by me[1]. Most of that in the past 5 years, meaning that I lost out on the stock market gains by prioritizing the debt pay off. To add insult to injury, my final payment was Feb of 2020, just in time to miss out on the forgiveness (I accelerated payments with the proceeds of a second job). [1] - When you're hourly, and maintaining a household, it costs money to take time off from work to go to school.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  As a fellow Gen X, this is such an empathy-free opinion in my reading. There are so many times I say to myself "Wow, I'm so lucky that I graduated college in the 90s when school was expensive but nothing like the insanity it is today, and that I was able to afford housing before housing prices became completely disconnected from wages." And I did have to pay off student loans for years. To be clear, I'm not really in favor of debt forgiveness, but not because I believe it's "unfair", but because I think it actually makes the root cause problem (the astronomical cost of college) even worse. I think modifying bankruptcy laws to make more student debt dischargable is a much better solution. Basically I strongly believe that pretty much every generation up to the millennials got a much better deal when it comes to education and housing costs, even if they do get 10 or 20k debt forgiveness. Dude, you were one of the lucky ones (and you've got a pension to boot!!!).
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    Read my comment below before judging me. Many millennials graduated before I did. Various of these Millennials and GenZers are in superior financial situations to me thanks to debt forgiveness. Meanwhile later GenZers are looking at the roll back of credential requirements. Which allows them more options for decent paying jobs without college debt. Though, yeah, I'm really lucky compared to the early Xers and late Boomers who are sitting on 6 figure debt repayments as they stare retirement in the face. My pension only came in to play in my late 30s. I don't plan on staying in this job for many reasons, but if I did I would be working into my late 70s to fund it at full compensation. Edit sometime later to add: They also take 9.5% off the top of my paycheck to fund it.
- thebooktocome 3y ago
  Millennial here, paid off my student loan debt with my own, hard-earned cash. My parents were already bankrupted by medical debt before I graduated high school, so no help there. I still want my less lucky peers and the zoomers made whole after they were sold a bill of goods. Chaining the better part of a generation to an anchor isn't a winning move for any civilization.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    I want the people who were shafted by predatory colleges made whole. I also want the parents of dead or disabled students let off the hook for repaying those loans. I also want disabled students forgiven. I don't want the people with 6 figure incomes, or current household wealth in the mid 5 figures, given a freebie at the relative expense of others in less fortunate situations. > Chaining the better part of a generation to an anchor Most Millennials never took on student debt. Or if they did, already paid it off.
    - thebooktocome 3y ago
      Means testing is super effective at increasing a welfare program's cost while reducing its societal impact. I read these Borgesian lists of acceptable kinds of hardship (which can be and are routinely bike-shedded ad nauseam) as calls for pointlessly increasing government bureaucracy and expenditure. Far cheaper to simply offer blanket forgiveness at some appropriate level.
      - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        It's done all of the time prior to now for student loans. And for income, at least, the IRS should be able to easily do this. Blanket forgiveness of loans comes with a societal cost for those who are in precarious situations but do not have loans to forgive. By increasing the money available to be spent for non-basic purposes there is almost guaranteed to be a demand-driven inflationary effect. This inflation would hurt those on the margin the worst. The parent comment that I originally replied to wants this forgiveness, in part, so that Millennials and GenZers will bid up the value of their house in order to help fund their retirement. This is the housing situation we've been in for the last couple of decades. In general it's been to the benefit of current homeowners, but not so much for the rest of us.
- chasd00 3y ago
  I’m 47 and on track to pay off my student loan next year. I would be mostly ok with some form of forgiveness but only if it came with the end of government backed or subsidized student loans in all their forms. That’s how things got out of control, there’s no risk to lenders and so the schools can raises prices indefinitely.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    I think the original error was making them non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. People still take out private student loans to go to college. I think colleges would have raised rates even without government subsidization. 18 year olds are in an ideal situation to be sold the benefits of taking on large amounts of debt for their future.
Aunche 3y ago
Student debt is so large and burdensome because the government has been handing out unconditional money to colleges. Student loan forgiveness increases people's willingness to pay for college, which means even more unconditional money for colleges. It's like putting out a fire by smothering it with gasoline. This is different from say EV subsidies (which I also think lived passed their usefulness) because car makers are incentivized to serve more customers to make more profit. Colleges don't gain anything from increasing their enrollment and would rather raise their tuition to hire administrators and build shiny buildings that boost their rankings.
- DesiLurker 3y ago
  I have been saying this forever, this is basic economics, you get more of what you subsidize. here govt should have subsidized creating more high quality colleges instead of federally-backed-non-dischargable loan. IMNSHO the non-dischargability is really the key here. if you can get rid of it in bankruptcy then they will be forced to evaluate which programs are not good ROI and possibly charge more interest for them. this way govt saddles students with the consequences of bad-policy on their part.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago

Hey man. Some of us are GenX who took significant opportunity costs to pay down our student loan debt. Don't make us compete for our first house with jubileed Millennials and GenZers. We can't afford to do that and save for retirement as is (though at this point I can't afford to do either. Glad I have a pension).

ejstronge 3y ago
At the same time, your education costs were much lower - through no fault of your own. Why should younger borrowers be penalized for market forces they did not contribute to?
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  I finished my AS and BS as a non-trad at the ages of 29 and 35. I'm currently in my mid 40s. Debt from my AS was paid by my parents, but the $31k in student loan debt and $20k in credit card debt for my BS was paid by me[1]. Most of that in the past 5 years, meaning that I lost out on the stock market gains by prioritizing the debt pay off. To add insult to injury, my final payment was Feb of 2020, just in time to miss out on the forgiveness (I accelerated payments with the proceeds of a second job). [1] - When you're hourly, and maintaining a household, it costs money to take time off from work to go to school.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
As a fellow Gen X, this is such an empathy-free opinion in my reading. There are so many times I say to myself "Wow, I'm so lucky that I graduated college in the 90s when school was expensive but nothing like the insanity it is today, and that I was able to afford housing before housing prices became completely disconnected from wages." And I did have to pay off student loans for years. To be clear, I'm not really in favor of debt forgiveness, but not because I believe it's "unfair", but because I think it actually makes the root cause problem (the astronomical cost of college) even worse. I think modifying bankruptcy laws to make more student debt dischargable is a much better solution. Basically I strongly believe that pretty much every generation up to the millennials got a much better deal when it comes to education and housing costs, even if they do get 10 or 20k debt forgiveness. Dude, you were one of the lucky ones (and you've got a pension to boot!!!).
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  Read my comment below before judging me. Many millennials graduated before I did. Various of these Millennials and GenZers are in superior financial situations to me thanks to debt forgiveness. Meanwhile later GenZers are looking at the roll back of credential requirements. Which allows them more options for decent paying jobs without college debt. Though, yeah, I'm really lucky compared to the early Xers and late Boomers who are sitting on 6 figure debt repayments as they stare retirement in the face. My pension only came in to play in my late 30s. I don't plan on staying in this job for many reasons, but if I did I would be working into my late 70s to fund it at full compensation. Edit sometime later to add: They also take 9.5% off the top of my paycheck to fund it.
thebooktocome 3y ago
Millennial here, paid off my student loan debt with my own, hard-earned cash. My parents were already bankrupted by medical debt before I graduated high school, so no help there. I still want my less lucky peers and the zoomers made whole after they were sold a bill of goods. Chaining the better part of a generation to an anchor isn't a winning move for any civilization.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  I want the people who were shafted by predatory colleges made whole. I also want the parents of dead or disabled students let off the hook for repaying those loans. I also want disabled students forgiven. I don't want the people with 6 figure incomes, or current household wealth in the mid 5 figures, given a freebie at the relative expense of others in less fortunate situations. > Chaining the better part of a generation to an anchor Most Millennials never took on student debt. Or if they did, already paid it off.
  - thebooktocome 3y ago
    Means testing is super effective at increasing a welfare program's cost while reducing its societal impact. I read these Borgesian lists of acceptable kinds of hardship (which can be and are routinely bike-shedded ad nauseam) as calls for pointlessly increasing government bureaucracy and expenditure. Far cheaper to simply offer blanket forgiveness at some appropriate level.
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      It's done all of the time prior to now for student loans. And for income, at least, the IRS should be able to easily do this. Blanket forgiveness of loans comes with a societal cost for those who are in precarious situations but do not have loans to forgive. By increasing the money available to be spent for non-basic purposes there is almost guaranteed to be a demand-driven inflationary effect. This inflation would hurt those on the margin the worst. The parent comment that I originally replied to wants this forgiveness, in part, so that Millennials and GenZers will bid up the value of their house in order to help fund their retirement. This is the housing situation we've been in for the last couple of decades. In general it's been to the benefit of current homeowners, but not so much for the rest of us.
chasd00 3y ago
I’m 47 and on track to pay off my student loan next year. I would be mostly ok with some form of forgiveness but only if it came with the end of government backed or subsidized student loans in all their forms. That’s how things got out of control, there’s no risk to lenders and so the schools can raises prices indefinitely.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  I think the original error was making them non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. People still take out private student loans to go to college. I think colleges would have raised rates even without government subsidization. 18 year olds are in an ideal situation to be sold the benefits of taking on large amounts of debt for their future.

Aunche 3y ago

Student debt is so large and burdensome because the government has been handing out unconditional money to colleges. Student loan forgiveness increases people's willingness to pay for college, which means even more unconditional money for colleges. It's like putting out a fire by smothering it with gasoline. This is different from say EV subsidies (which I also think lived passed their usefulness) because car makers are incentivized to serve more customers to make more profit. Colleges don't gain anything from increasing their enrollment and would rather raise their tuition to hire administrators and build shiny buildings that boost their rankings.

DesiLurker 3y ago
I have been saying this forever, this is basic economics, you get more of what you subsidize. here govt should have subsidized creating more high quality colleges instead of federally-backed-non-dischargable loan. IMNSHO the non-dischargability is really the key here. if you can get rid of it in bankruptcy then they will be forced to evaluate which programs are not good ROI and possibly charge more interest for them. this way govt saddles students with the consequences of bad-policy on their part.