3 ms·

> The thing no one tells you is that it's brutal on your body. It'll break down after a time. I hear surprisingly often here on HN that manual labor and workin

> The thing no one tells you is that it's brutal on your body. It'll break down after a time. I hear surprisingly often here on HN that manual labor and working in the trades ruins your body over decades due to over-exertion. But I also read that sitting in a chair staring at a screen for 8-10 hours a day ruins your body over decades due to under-exertion. So I am left wondering who is right.

navbaker 3y ago
The difference is that there are small things and changes in your routine you can do to counteract those negative effects of sitting at a desk. You can’t do the same with a manual labor job.
michaelt 3y ago
A programmer who wants more physical exertion can drop by the gym or go for a run a few times a week, to keep healthy. A bathroom fitter who wants less physical exertion, though? Ain't nobody else going to haul that 700 lbs pallet of tiles or that awkward ass bathtub up that staircase.
- tomjakubowski 3y ago
  the bathroom fitter's problem may be imbalanced exertion, emphasizing the same movements over time without complementary moves can cause injury as well
  - sixstringtheory 3y ago
    Probably, but a problem here is that a bathroom fitter might not have the time or energy to do that. Especially if they’re still trying to live a life outside of work with family and friends and hobbies. And getting injured at the gym doesn’t help you get to work the next day. I worked in kitchens for years and as much as I also wanted to hit the gym I didn’t have it in me after 12+ hour shifts. I had several family members in older generations who did various types of manual labor and saw what it did to their bodies. As much as I bitch about the state of the software industry and some of my coworkers, I know better than to throw that baby out with the bathwater. We have it really good. Then again, if someone doesn’t have any first hand experience with any of this, maybe it would be good to go get some perspective.
hacoo 3y ago
Both are right, they just mess you up in different ways.
yourapostasy 3y ago
> So I am left wondering who is right. They're both right. However, "sitting in a chair staring at a screen for 8-10 hours a day" in this conversation stands in for "classic HN programming job". In that context, it still gives you a choice to take bodyweight exercise breaks in brief moments during the day and over noontime lunch (if you follow Huberman Lab's "don't start eating until 2 pm" advice), and working out afterwards. The other part overlooked in this thread about manual labor beyond the over-exertion already touched upon is many people build overtime into their assumed lifestyle and pay expectations. It is part of the culture, and it accelerates the wear and tear on bodies. Also perniciously schedule traps people into not enough time to work out even assuming they had the energy to do so. Also, in many industries it is still somewhat uncommon to find employers and employees who take PPE seriously. Welding is notorious for such a culture if you find yourself in a shop that specializes in welding (independents get to set their own standards, but a distressingly high number of them still don't take it seriously). There is even a perverse machismo associated with cavalier PPE attitudes in some shops. You can work manual labor, get paid a lot, and not wreck your body. In both cases, you have to be very discerning about what to accept is "normal" for your industry and yourself, and accordingly set your boundaries.
c37d8bc 3y ago
The distribution in manual labor includes major catastrophic injury. I'm 28, work in landscaping: the second day of this season I fell through a metal grate and was lucky to not snap my leg. I passed out at work last year due to dehydration/exhaustion after nicking my leg with a pair of electric hedge trimmers; it could have been much worse. There's quite a few engineers I know that are fat and unshapely, and that likely takes a toll on their health, but I doubt any of them encounter daily situations where they're at decent chance of being maimed.

navbaker 3y ago

The difference is that there are small things and changes in your routine you can do to counteract those negative effects of sitting at a desk. You can’t do the same with a manual labor job.

michaelt 3y ago

A programmer who wants more physical exertion can drop by the gym or go for a run a few times a week, to keep healthy. A bathroom fitter who wants less physical exertion, though? Ain't nobody else going to haul that 700 lbs pallet of tiles or that awkward ass bathtub up that staircase.

tomjakubowski 3y ago
the bathroom fitter's problem may be imbalanced exertion, emphasizing the same movements over time without complementary moves can cause injury as well
- sixstringtheory 3y ago
  Probably, but a problem here is that a bathroom fitter might not have the time or energy to do that. Especially if they’re still trying to live a life outside of work with family and friends and hobbies. And getting injured at the gym doesn’t help you get to work the next day. I worked in kitchens for years and as much as I also wanted to hit the gym I didn’t have it in me after 12+ hour shifts. I had several family members in older generations who did various types of manual labor and saw what it did to their bodies. As much as I bitch about the state of the software industry and some of my coworkers, I know better than to throw that baby out with the bathwater. We have it really good. Then again, if someone doesn’t have any first hand experience with any of this, maybe it would be good to go get some perspective.

hacoo 3y ago

Both are right, they just mess you up in different ways.

yourapostasy 3y ago

> So I am left wondering who is right. They're both right. However, "sitting in a chair staring at a screen for 8-10 hours a day" in this conversation stands in for "classic HN programming job". In that context, it still gives you a choice to take bodyweight exercise breaks in brief moments during the day and over noontime lunch (if you follow Huberman Lab's "don't start eating until 2 pm" advice), and working out afterwards. The other part overlooked in this thread about manual labor beyond the over-exertion already touched upon is many people build overtime into their assumed lifestyle and pay expectations. It is part of the culture, and it accelerates the wear and tear on bodies. Also perniciously schedule traps people into not enough time to work out even assuming they had the energy to do so. Also, in many industries it is still somewhat uncommon to find employers and employees who take PPE seriously. Welding is notorious for such a culture if you find yourself in a shop that specializes in welding (independents get to set their own standards, but a distressingly high number of them still don't take it seriously). There is even a perverse machismo associated with cavalier PPE attitudes in some shops. You can work manual labor, get paid a lot, and not wreck your body. In both cases, you have to be very discerning about what to accept is "normal" for your industry and yourself, and accordingly set your boundaries.

c37d8bc 3y ago

The distribution in manual labor includes major catastrophic injury. I'm 28, work in landscaping: the second day of this season I fell through a metal grate and was lucky to not snap my leg. I passed out at work last year due to dehydration/exhaustion after nicking my leg with a pair of electric hedge trimmers; it could have been much worse. There's quite a few engineers I know that are fat and unshapely, and that likely takes a toll on their health, but I doubt any of them encounter daily situations where they're at decent chance of being maimed.