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Interesting. Copyright applies to regular folks but not to corporations ingesting our content for model training.

dark-star 3y ago
the corollary is that if you download a movie not to watch it, but to train an AI on it, then copyright does not apply. So when someone knocks on your door and accuses you of illegal streaming, just tell them you "trained an AI" on it ;-)
- troglotit 3y ago
  unix `cp` command is AI
- kwhitefoot 3y ago
  > scientific research is usually exempt from copyright. Is it? Everywhere?
neximo64 3y ago
Maybe its that governments should train AI models to be fair with copyright. One could argue that people ingest copyrighted content too and spit it back out too.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  > One could argue that people ingest copyrighted content too and spit it back out too. Well then we should be allowed to store entire movies, since we can memorise just like hard drives do.
jeroenhd 3y ago
That's still an open question. The AI people here sure claim it doesn't. The typical workaround is that scientific research is usually exempt from copyright. If you train a model for research, and then use that model for your business, your business didn't take part in the violation step. Unless the model you trained is a derived work, of course. If it is, you need to pay for every scrap of copyrighted work you use, same as with music samples (fair use probably doesn't apply here but IANAL). There are two American lawsuits about this going on at the moment that I know of. I think the lawsuit against the stable diffusion people can bring the clearest answer to this question, though I wouldn't be surprised if the case goes through various courts because of the implications for the AI industry as a whole. Actually having to pay for the stuff you use would ruin a lot of AI startups. Then again, having to pay for the stuff you use also ruined Napster.
globular-toast 3y ago
Which is especially amusing because when copyright was invented it was only corporations that could realistically own copying machines (ie. printing presses). It was never meant to stop individuals copying things.

the corollary is that if you download a movie not to watch it, but to train an AI on it, then copyright does not apply. So when someone knocks on your door and accuses you of illegal streaming, just tell them you "trained an AI" on it ;-)

troglotit 3y ago
unix `cp` command is AI
kwhitefoot 3y ago
> scientific research is usually exempt from copyright. Is it? Everywhere?

neximo64 3y ago

Maybe its that governments should train AI models to be fair with copyright. One could argue that people ingest copyrighted content too and spit it back out too.

gumballindie 3y ago
> One could argue that people ingest copyrighted content too and spit it back out too. Well then we should be allowed to store entire movies, since we can memorise just like hard drives do.

jeroenhd 3y ago

That's still an open question. The AI people here sure claim it doesn't. The typical workaround is that scientific research is usually exempt from copyright. If you train a model for research, and then use that model for your business, your business didn't take part in the violation step. Unless the model you trained is a derived work, of course. If it is, you need to pay for every scrap of copyrighted work you use, same as with music samples (fair use probably doesn't apply here but IANAL). There are two American lawsuits about this going on at the moment that I know of. I think the lawsuit against the stable diffusion people can bring the clearest answer to this question, though I wouldn't be surprised if the case goes through various courts because of the implications for the AI industry as a whole. Actually having to pay for the stuff you use would ruin a lot of AI startups. Then again, having to pay for the stuff you use also ruined Napster.

globular-toast 3y ago

Which is especially amusing because when copyright was invented it was only corporations that could realistically own copying machines (ie. printing presses). It was never meant to stop individuals copying things.