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Why would we produce synthetic fuel when we have batteries? We also have other ways to store electricity. Am I missing sarcasm in your comment or something?

Incipient 3y ago
Batteries (lithium particularly) are not storage devices. They're grid stabilising devices. They are simply not able to store meaningful quantities of energy at an affordable price. In our city, we are installing a battery that can power 160k homes for 2h, at the cost of AU$200m. That's just not "storage", it's designed to flatten out peaks and troughs in supply.
aenis 3y ago
The batteries are not cost efficient, and take up lots of space. Not great for the Northern Europe - expensive land, strict zoning laws, etc.
dahfizz 3y ago
Gasoline has an energy density like 100x batteries. As an energy storage medium, it's excellent. The thousand pounds of batteries in a Tesla contain the same amount of energy as ~3 gallons of gas.
- 2000UltraDeluxe 3y ago
  This. It, along with diesel, is also the power source for most wheeled veichles in current operation on the planet. I'm sure EV's is going to take over in most areas given enough time. Until then, it's only logical to run ICE's on green fuels if available. Synthetic fuels made with excess solar/wind certainly sounds like it would fit that description. Also, we already have infrastructure in place for handling large amounts of petrol and diesel, so storage and handling is a solved problem.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  How many gallons of gas need to be burned to account for the entire lifespan of that battery? My point is that when talking about storing excess energy from the grid, maybe storage density isn't as important as storage availability.
  - Ekaros 3y ago
    Cost of storage is the big question. Synthetic fuels might have bad efficiency. But building huge container for liquid or gas is not expensive. Let's say you want to store fuel now and keep it for 6 months, might be realistic with gas or fuel. On other hand single cycle from battery is awfully expensive. Even if you get to use it for 100 years.
im3w1l 3y ago
Let's say it takes n batteries to store electricity produced one day and use it the next day. Then it takes 10n batteries to store electricity produced during ten days and use it during the next ten days. With synthetic fuel let's say it takes m fuel producers / consumers to store electricity produced one day and use it the next. Then it still takes m fuel producers / consumers to store electricity produced during ten days and use it the next ten days. The only thing you need to scale up is your fuel tank, but that is very cheap.

Incipient 3y ago

Batteries (lithium particularly) are not storage devices. They're grid stabilising devices. They are simply not able to store meaningful quantities of energy at an affordable price. In our city, we are installing a battery that can power 160k homes for 2h, at the cost of AU$200m. That's just not "storage", it's designed to flatten out peaks and troughs in supply.

aenis 3y ago

The batteries are not cost efficient, and take up lots of space. Not great for the Northern Europe - expensive land, strict zoning laws, etc.

dahfizz 3y ago

Gasoline has an energy density like 100x batteries. As an energy storage medium, it's excellent. The thousand pounds of batteries in a Tesla contain the same amount of energy as ~3 gallons of gas.

2000UltraDeluxe 3y ago
This. It, along with diesel, is also the power source for most wheeled veichles in current operation on the planet. I'm sure EV's is going to take over in most areas given enough time. Until then, it's only logical to run ICE's on green fuels if available. Synthetic fuels made with excess solar/wind certainly sounds like it would fit that description. Also, we already have infrastructure in place for handling large amounts of petrol and diesel, so storage and handling is a solved problem.
bluefirebrand 3y ago
How many gallons of gas need to be burned to account for the entire lifespan of that battery? My point is that when talking about storing excess energy from the grid, maybe storage density isn't as important as storage availability.
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Cost of storage is the big question. Synthetic fuels might have bad efficiency. But building huge container for liquid or gas is not expensive. Let's say you want to store fuel now and keep it for 6 months, might be realistic with gas or fuel. On other hand single cycle from battery is awfully expensive. Even if you get to use it for 100 years.

im3w1l 3y ago

Let's say it takes n batteries to store electricity produced one day and use it the next day. Then it takes 10n batteries to store electricity produced during ten days and use it during the next ten days. With synthetic fuel let's say it takes m fuel producers / consumers to store electricity produced one day and use it the next. Then it still takes m fuel producers / consumers to store electricity produced during ten days and use it the next ten days. The only thing you need to scale up is your fuel tank, but that is very cheap.