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> The problem is, a business is more than just an idea. > Sure, every business starts with an idea, but a business is a product, and manufacturing, and supply

> The problem is, a business is more than just an idea. > Sure, every business starts with an idea, but a business is a product, and manufacturing, and supply chains, and financial reports, and customer service. > Once you involve other stakeholders, you become accountable. You become accountable to your customers, shareholders, and employees. That's a difficult thing for a founder who is used to exerting complete control over the thing they're building.

tombert 3y ago
That's something I've said for a long time, after an argument with a "startup founder" who wanted me to code their entire website (from scratch!) with no help for a grand total of 2% equity (they got the remaining 98%, obviously) within basically no outside pay. I tried to get a bit more equity before I signed [1], explaining that it seemed like I would be doing the lion's share of the work, so I felt I deserved at least 10-15% equity. The "founder" then told me that they deserve most of the equity because they had the "idea" for this startup, and I told them that everyone has ideas! Ideas are useful and necessary but also extremely cheap and unspectacular. No one gives a shit about your "idea", at least not until you've actually done some actual work to objectively prove that the idea is good. [1] I was still somewhat young in my career and the red flags that I have now had not been fully developed.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Yeah “someones offering me 100% equity for the same idea, see ya later!” springs to mind!
  - tombert 3y ago
    You know, I was dumb enough at the time, it's possible I signed a non-disclosure or non-compete before even having the meeting with this "founder". I genuinely don't remember, but it's possible, in which case if I had tried doing that I might have been sued. I don't know how successful they would have been.
    - quickthrower2 3y ago
      That's understandable. Some people lie, and pretend they "have connections" and "know the right people" and "can get funding" and "are good at getting the customers and marketing", and people with the right charm can pull off the deceit. I could have fallen for this when young if someone offered me this. Luckily for me they didn't!
Satam 3y ago
Right, and if someone else thinks they can do a better job they're free to start their own company or acquire a stake in one. Also, why are stakeholders being infantalized like they're some completely naive and innocent bystanders? Customers presumably are not forced to buy what you're selling, shareholders know their capital is at risk, and employees get paid every month. Are we supposed to be everyone's psychologist and finance advisor as well? Everyone's making their own decisions.

tombert 3y ago

That's something I've said for a long time, after an argument with a "startup founder" who wanted me to code their entire website (from scratch!) with no help for a grand total of 2% equity (they got the remaining 98%, obviously) within basically no outside pay. I tried to get a bit more equity before I signed [1], explaining that it seemed like I would be doing the lion's share of the work, so I felt I deserved at least 10-15% equity. The "founder" then told me that they deserve most of the equity because they had the "idea" for this startup, and I told them that everyone has ideas! Ideas are useful and necessary but also extremely cheap and unspectacular. No one gives a shit about your "idea", at least not until you've actually done some actual work to objectively prove that the idea is good. [1] I was still somewhat young in my career and the red flags that I have now had not been fully developed.

quickthrower2 3y ago
Yeah “someones offering me 100% equity for the same idea, see ya later!” springs to mind!
- tombert 3y ago
  You know, I was dumb enough at the time, it's possible I signed a non-disclosure or non-compete before even having the meeting with this "founder". I genuinely don't remember, but it's possible, in which case if I had tried doing that I might have been sued. I don't know how successful they would have been.
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    That's understandable. Some people lie, and pretend they "have connections" and "know the right people" and "can get funding" and "are good at getting the customers and marketing", and people with the right charm can pull off the deceit. I could have fallen for this when young if someone offered me this. Luckily for me they didn't!

Satam 3y ago

Right, and if someone else thinks they can do a better job they're free to start their own company or acquire a stake in one. Also, why are stakeholders being infantalized like they're some completely naive and innocent bystanders? Customers presumably are not forced to buy what you're selling, shareholders know their capital is at risk, and employees get paid every month. Are we supposed to be everyone's psychologist and finance advisor as well? Everyone's making their own decisions.