5 ms·

Of course you don't "end up in jail in the west". First they freeze your assets, and only then if you're foolish enough to subject yourself to the due process,

Of course you don't "end up in jail in the west". First they freeze your assets, and only then if you're foolish enough to subject yourself to the due process, you might end up in jail. There's an handful of people from the west who went to Donbass to report the situation. They are (of course?) mostly supportive of Russia, so you shouldn't delude yourself in thinking that they are unbiased... but they have regularly been threatened with prosecution if/when they'll return, example: https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/german-journalist-faces-three-years-prison-over-reporting-donbass-region https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/german-journalist-...

_kbh_ 3y ago
> https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/german-journalist-faces-three-years-prison-over-reporting-donbass-region https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/german-journalist-... Do you have a source that doesn't just wholeheartedly parrot Russian and CCP talking points?.
- berdario 3y ago
  We're talking about criminal proceedings here, it's not a "talking point" for which you can doubt its veracity. There's plenty of corroboration https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/11/alina-lipp-germany-green-party-russia-propaganda-ukraine-invasion/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/11/alina-lipp...
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    Much better thank you. > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/11/alina-lipp-germany-green-party-russia-propaganda-ukraine-invasion/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/11/alina-lipp... but I don't understand how your claims hold up when this is one of the lines of the article. >> It is understood that there had been no warrant for her arrest.
    - berdario 3y ago
      I feel like you're trying to poke holes in other people's arguments, and not really engaging with an open mind. The straightforward answer is: you don't need a warrant to risk ending up in jail. I'm not a German jurist, but I believe that warrants are used if there's a risk that a suspect would commit violent crimes or alternatively if prosecution found someone guilty in absentia. For Alina Lipp, the prosecution just started. It's not the only case, btw. Another famous case is Steven's Dozinger. I think that Legaleagle's video is quite evenhanded and yet entertaining in explaining his situation: https://youtu.be/B7d2KoXmPXk https://youtu.be/B7d2KoXmPXk Another more recent case, is Omali Yeshitela's https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/breaking-four-citizens-charged-working-29745092 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/breaking-four-citizens... My point is that being silenced in such ways in the west is more likely than people think. Dissenting speech gets granted a lot of leeway, but that's only until it has few chances to influence people. As soon as dissent can actually threaten the establishment, that's when you start to see a reaction against it. Of course, in wartime little leeway will be granted for dissent.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Another more recent case, is Omali Yeshitela's > https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/breaking-four-citizens-charged-working-29745092 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/breaking-four-citizens... > Four US citizens charged with working for Russia spy agency to interfere with elections Wow talking about stretching for a story, ill accept that Steven's Dozinger is not a good look but to have to lower yourself to saying being jailed for espionage is being silenced is such a stretch im surprised you even brought it up, it weakens your argument more then including it strengthens it.
        berdario 3y ago
        You're telling on yourself: there's no espionage going on. > asked Yeshitela to make statements in support of the independence of the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic This is what the Russians asked Yeshitela to do, and what Yeshitela is being punished for.

_kbh_ 3y ago

> https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/german-journalist-faces-three-years-prison-over-reporting-donbass-region https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/german-journalist-... Do you have a source that doesn't just wholeheartedly parrot Russian and CCP talking points?.

berdario 3y ago
We're talking about criminal proceedings here, it's not a "talking point" for which you can doubt its veracity. There's plenty of corroboration https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/11/alina-lipp-germany-green-party-russia-propaganda-ukraine-invasion/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/11/alina-lipp...
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  Much better thank you. > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/11/alina-lipp-germany-green-party-russia-propaganda-ukraine-invasion/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/11/alina-lipp... but I don't understand how your claims hold up when this is one of the lines of the article. >> It is understood that there had been no warrant for her arrest.
  - berdario 3y ago
    I feel like you're trying to poke holes in other people's arguments, and not really engaging with an open mind. The straightforward answer is: you don't need a warrant to risk ending up in jail. I'm not a German jurist, but I believe that warrants are used if there's a risk that a suspect would commit violent crimes or alternatively if prosecution found someone guilty in absentia. For Alina Lipp, the prosecution just started. It's not the only case, btw. Another famous case is Steven's Dozinger. I think that Legaleagle's video is quite evenhanded and yet entertaining in explaining his situation: https://youtu.be/B7d2KoXmPXk https://youtu.be/B7d2KoXmPXk Another more recent case, is Omali Yeshitela's https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/breaking-four-citizens-charged-working-29745092 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/breaking-four-citizens... My point is that being silenced in such ways in the west is more likely than people think. Dissenting speech gets granted a lot of leeway, but that's only until it has few chances to influence people. As soon as dissent can actually threaten the establishment, that's when you start to see a reaction against it. Of course, in wartime little leeway will be granted for dissent.
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > Another more recent case, is Omali Yeshitela's > https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/breaking-four-citizens-charged-working-29745092 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/breaking-four-citizens... > Four US citizens charged with working for Russia spy agency to interfere with elections Wow talking about stretching for a story, ill accept that Steven's Dozinger is not a good look but to have to lower yourself to saying being jailed for espionage is being silenced is such a stretch im surprised you even brought it up, it weakens your argument more then including it strengthens it.
      - berdario 3y ago
        You're telling on yourself: there's no espionage going on. > asked Yeshitela to make statements in support of the independence of the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic This is what the Russians asked Yeshitela to do, and what Yeshitela is being punished for.