4 ms·

But you see the chicken and egg problem here. News outlets have deteriorated because they can't make money. If people actually paid for them they might have a

by carlmr 3y ago

But you see the chicken and egg problem here. News outlets have deteriorated because they can't make money. If people actually paid for them they might have a chance to hire competent people and do investigative journalism. But now they're being paid mostly by ad revenue and a handful of subscribers. So they have to publish trash to optimize for clicks.

lynx23 3y ago
Its even worse. In my country, the government has given a lot of money to media companies, right around covid. That magically made them all comply and report the same government propaganda. However, even non-conspiracy-theory-people have realized what is going on here. After the fact, I believe no sane person would want to give them money, because, you know "the state is already paying em, why should I?"
- account42 3y ago
  Here the government gives the media companies money all year every year. And its not even the government's money (from taxes) but my money that I am forced to pay for a contract that I never agreed to or want and can't opt out of.
  - carlmr 3y ago
    Are you both Germans? What is here? >And its not even the government's money (from taxes) but my money If you're a tax payer the government's money is your money, no?
    - account42 3y ago
      > Are you both Germans? What is here? In my case here is Germany, yes. > If you're a tax payer the government's money is your money, no? Indirectly, yes but the details are very different. With taxes the government decides on how much tax you pay for various things and then the money goes into the general budget from which the government again allocates funds for various things. Allocating more money towards overpaid entertainment personalities and greedy sports organizations in this model would mean less money the government has to pay for other things so you'd hope they would put some thought in what expenditures are really needed. The budget is also periodically re-evaluated. Taxes are also generally either based on something you choose to do or based on income, meaning they are means tested and usually increase progressively in order to put less of a burden on those that already have less. Taxes are also collected by government institutions which means whatever organizatons are involved in providing the services the taxes pay for won't need to know my banking details or place of residence. The TV fees are very different. Here the legacy media companies get a flat sum from everyone (with some exceptions) without consideration for either what burden this places on the individual payer or what funds are really needed to provide the respective services. Politicians only ever have to think about the amount when the companies involved ask for bigger handouts. Instead of considering of these legacy media companies are still needed with the internet and available, or if we need the current excess (with a separate TV station per state plus two for the country overall), these media companies and the politicans that enable them have decided that making their services available online means that everyone is a potential user and must pay. Unlike taxes these fees are not collected by the finace ministry but by a separate organization representing the media companies which automatically receives the place of residence for everyone registered in Germany.
    - lynx23 3y ago
      No, I am definitely not German, actually, proud not to be.
ptero 3y ago
> News outlets have deteriorated because they can't make money. There are taxpayer-supported, nonprofit news sources. They are not any better, spewing the same type of opinionated stuff (propaganda, really). The need to make money is not the culprit there.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  That's still the need to make money. It's just that they're making it from the government, and therefore have to publish what their real customer wants.
- lynx23 3y ago
  The problem with these is that the taxpayers did not decide on this cashflow. The government did. And that is why you perceive news as propaganda, because these newsoutlets very well know that they are being payed by the government, and therefore they have to preport what the current government wants to see reported. Its a bit like with ads: The customer is not the consumer, the consumer is the product. The government pays taxpayer money to be able to influence public opinion.

by carlmr 3y ago

lynx23 3y ago

Its even worse. In my country, the government has given a lot of money to media companies, right around covid. That magically made them all comply and report the same government propaganda. However, even non-conspiracy-theory-people have realized what is going on here. After the fact, I believe no sane person would want to give them money, because, you know "the state is already paying em, why should I?"

account42 3y ago
Here the government gives the media companies money all year every year. And its not even the government's money (from taxes) but my money that I am forced to pay for a contract that I never agreed to or want and can't opt out of.
- carlmr 3y ago
  Are you both Germans? What is here? >And its not even the government's money (from taxes) but my money If you're a tax payer the government's money is your money, no?
  - account42 3y ago
    > Are you both Germans? What is here? In my case here is Germany, yes. > If you're a tax payer the government's money is your money, no? Indirectly, yes but the details are very different. With taxes the government decides on how much tax you pay for various things and then the money goes into the general budget from which the government again allocates funds for various things. Allocating more money towards overpaid entertainment personalities and greedy sports organizations in this model would mean less money the government has to pay for other things so you'd hope they would put some thought in what expenditures are really needed. The budget is also periodically re-evaluated. Taxes are also generally either based on something you choose to do or based on income, meaning they are means tested and usually increase progressively in order to put less of a burden on those that already have less. Taxes are also collected by government institutions which means whatever organizatons are involved in providing the services the taxes pay for won't need to know my banking details or place of residence. The TV fees are very different. Here the legacy media companies get a flat sum from everyone (with some exceptions) without consideration for either what burden this places on the individual payer or what funds are really needed to provide the respective services. Politicians only ever have to think about the amount when the companies involved ask for bigger handouts. Instead of considering of these legacy media companies are still needed with the internet and available, or if we need the current excess (with a separate TV station per state plus two for the country overall), these media companies and the politicans that enable them have decided that making their services available online means that everyone is a potential user and must pay. Unlike taxes these fees are not collected by the finace ministry but by a separate organization representing the media companies which automatically receives the place of residence for everyone registered in Germany.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    No, I am definitely not German, actually, proud not to be.

ptero 3y ago

> News outlets have deteriorated because they can't make money. There are taxpayer-supported, nonprofit news sources. They are not any better, spewing the same type of opinionated stuff (propaganda, really). The need to make money is not the culprit there.

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
That's still the need to make money. It's just that they're making it from the government, and therefore have to publish what their real customer wants.
lynx23 3y ago
The problem with these is that the taxpayers did not decide on this cashflow. The government did. And that is why you perceive news as propaganda, because these newsoutlets very well know that they are being payed by the government, and therefore they have to preport what the current government wants to see reported. Its a bit like with ads: The customer is not the consumer, the consumer is the product. The government pays taxpayer money to be able to influence public opinion.