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But he's not the only business leader using heavy-handed techniques to get workers back in the office. I think it's likely that he genuinely believes that worki

But he's not the only business leader using heavy-handed techniques to get workers back in the office. I think it's likely that he genuinely believes that working from the office is better - he's not playing 4d chess. The morality argument is just him rationalizing what he already believes. This isn't the "first principles" thinking that he demands from others.

smeej 3y ago
My brother calls return-to-office policies "panicking, in Boomer." Tech company profits are declining. Management (especially Boomer management) needs to be seen as "doing something" or they're the ones on the chopping block. So they force everybody back into the office so they can be seen to be managing. God forbid the cause of declining profits be things like national monetary policy or years of short-term decision-making that propped profits up to unsustainable highs. No. It must be that Andy works from home. Better bring everybody in to keep an eye on them (to read their faces and find out for sure just how much shit they'll take from you before they quit).
- danjac 3y ago
  I doubt there are that many Boomers left in tech management - almost all that age cohort are in retirement or semi-retired, they're enjoying their Saga cruises and golf courses (or if they're unlucky, their Walmart greeter jobs). I suspect there are managers panicking about losing relevance in a post-office world, but those will be middle-managers, not CEOs. Much of the panic is from owners of commercial real estate and their flying monkeys in the media who are seeing empty office blocks and declining property values and rents. As for Musk, who knows. He's in his own very weird bubble of long-terminism or cosmism or whatever it is he believes in. Maybe he thinks if everyone works from home it will lead to a drop in birth rates or decline in Western society or something.
  - smeej 3y ago
    I'm specifically talking about the middle managers. They're the ones who need to be seen "doing things," so when it's time to surface any ideas for how to fix the problem, especially when it's their butts on the line, this is what comes out. But I also refer to the boards and investors. We'd love to think it's all a young person's VC game, but behind all that money is still, more often than not, someone who panics in Boomer.
    - shard 3y ago
      Baby Boomer generation is 1946-1964, which would make them 59-77. I expect only the younger range is likely to still be middle managers. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the use of "boomer" as a derogative to be reductionist and ageist, not to mention most of the time incorrect, as I've seen it applied all the way to Millennials.
      - smeej 3y ago
        They've been criticizing my generation for receiving the "participation trophies" they gave us as kids, as well as screwing over our entire economy with shortsighted self-protectionism, so I definitely mean it in a derogatory way against people their age. To be fair, I criticize them for the shit they did when they were my age too, so I'm criticizing them as a cohort, not because of their current age.
        shard 3y ago
        > They've been criticizing my generation for receiving the "participation trophies" they gave us as kids Are you sure that the people doing the criticizing are the same people giving out the trophies? > so I definitely mean it in a derogatory way against people their age The way you had used it, as commentary on middle managers, seem to include people from Baby Boomers all the way to Millennials. > I'm criticizing them as a cohort, not because of their current age In which case it sounds like using the age identifier would be incorrect.
        smeej 3y ago
nyc_data_geek1 3y ago
He probably has money in commercial real estate, like Jamie Dimon and so many others.

smeej 3y ago

My brother calls return-to-office policies "panicking, in Boomer." Tech company profits are declining. Management (especially Boomer management) needs to be seen as "doing something" or they're the ones on the chopping block. So they force everybody back into the office so they can be seen to be managing. God forbid the cause of declining profits be things like national monetary policy or years of short-term decision-making that propped profits up to unsustainable highs. No. It must be that Andy works from home. Better bring everybody in to keep an eye on them (to read their faces and find out for sure just how much shit they'll take from you before they quit).

danjac 3y ago
I doubt there are that many Boomers left in tech management - almost all that age cohort are in retirement or semi-retired, they're enjoying their Saga cruises and golf courses (or if they're unlucky, their Walmart greeter jobs). I suspect there are managers panicking about losing relevance in a post-office world, but those will be middle-managers, not CEOs. Much of the panic is from owners of commercial real estate and their flying monkeys in the media who are seeing empty office blocks and declining property values and rents. As for Musk, who knows. He's in his own very weird bubble of long-terminism or cosmism or whatever it is he believes in. Maybe he thinks if everyone works from home it will lead to a drop in birth rates or decline in Western society or something.
- smeej 3y ago
  I'm specifically talking about the middle managers. They're the ones who need to be seen "doing things," so when it's time to surface any ideas for how to fix the problem, especially when it's their butts on the line, this is what comes out. But I also refer to the boards and investors. We'd love to think it's all a young person's VC game, but behind all that money is still, more often than not, someone who panics in Boomer.
  - shard 3y ago
    Baby Boomer generation is 1946-1964, which would make them 59-77. I expect only the younger range is likely to still be middle managers. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the use of "boomer" as a derogative to be reductionist and ageist, not to mention most of the time incorrect, as I've seen it applied all the way to Millennials.
    - smeej 3y ago
      They've been criticizing my generation for receiving the "participation trophies" they gave us as kids, as well as screwing over our entire economy with shortsighted self-protectionism, so I definitely mean it in a derogatory way against people their age. To be fair, I criticize them for the shit they did when they were my age too, so I'm criticizing them as a cohort, not because of their current age.
      - shard 3y ago
        > They've been criticizing my generation for receiving the "participation trophies" they gave us as kids Are you sure that the people doing the criticizing are the same people giving out the trophies? > so I definitely mean it in a derogatory way against people their age The way you had used it, as commentary on middle managers, seem to include people from Baby Boomers all the way to Millennials. > I'm criticizing them as a cohort, not because of their current age In which case it sounds like using the age identifier would be incorrect.
        smeej 3y ago

nyc_data_geek1 3y ago

He probably has money in commercial real estate, like Jamie Dimon and so many others.