4 ms·

The Hohokam tribe lived there for at least 2000 years and westerners have been established there for over 150 years. Since only 10% of the people are over 60, d

The Hohokam tribe lived there for at least 2000 years and westerners have been established there for over 150 years. Since only 10% of the people are over 60, does this mean the constitution of adult's have become very much poorer?

gdubs 3y ago
The indigenous people of America had a much more intimate understanding of how to live on the land and survive. Kind of precisely the point is how our way of living relies on technology and infrastructure that we take for granted.
- dendrite9 3y ago
  Even then major loss of population seems to have occurred in the southwest at various times possibly connected to climate and droughts. Even with newer technology I suspect many houses built in Phoenix are dependent on AC, rather than being designed to have AC as a supplement. A number of years ago we had an HVAC issue at work on a sunny week. It was shocking how much harder it was to focus and work in the afternoon as the air got stuffy and hot. Our office had some options for airflow, but not many. I've been meaning to look into what ti would take to put some tints on the windows to reduce the heat in the summer.
  - blacksmith_tb 3y ago
    Any window covering really needs to go on the outside (anything on the inside is too late, the energy is already heating up your room), so I'd recommend sunblocking fabric roller shades (Coolaroo is a popular Australian manufacturer, I have one, it's worked well for me on a west-facing deck).
    - dendrite9 3y ago
      Good point. Fortunately we're in a 2 story building so access isn't difficult. I think I might have a harder time selling the others on shades for now. At home I'm trying to grow some vines to shade some of the south facing windows but the real need is better attic insulation.
    - gdubs 3y ago
      Not entirely the case. When the sun passes through and starts beaming into objects in your room, the floor, etc, those objects then radiate that heat throughout the day.
      - blacksmith_tb 3y ago
        Yes, that's what I was suggesting, though even adding some kind of film (or especially shades and curtains) on the inside will potentially allow for more heating to occur than blocking or reflect the sunlight outside the structure.
  - gdubs 3y ago
    3M makes a really good set of films to reduce both glare and solar gain — we had them put on some very large windows and it's definitely a difference. You have to go through a 3M contractor which is the only annoying aspect (although it's not a job I would have enjoyed doing so having a pro do it worked out in our case.)
TheChaplain 3y ago
People adapt. When I moved to south asia the heat and humidity really strained me, but after almost a year my body had adapted and I could easily wear a full suit without sweating liters.
givemeethekeys 3y ago
If 30% of Arizonians are fat, and many others are above 65 years of age, then maybe Phoenix is fucked. Source: https://patch.com/arizona/phoenix/how-obesity-rate-arizona-compares-other-states https://patch.com/arizona/phoenix/how-obesity-rate-arizona-c...
- yamtaddle 3y ago
  There's also such a thing as acclimatization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_and_heat_adaptations_in_humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_and_heat_adaptations_in_h... If you're living in a hot area but used to AC, you're far less able to cope with loss of AC than someone who's been living without it the whole time. Further, modern dwellings are build with AC in mind. Older ones—by which I mean 50+ years ago, let alone dwellings the native people of the area lived in—were built with airflow & cooling in mind. They might be situated to take advantage of local conditions like shade or prevailing wind. Building for AC means some of that's less important, so gets ignored, and other aspects are deliberately broken to improve AC efficiency (window sizes shrink and there are fewer of them, maybe with none at all on some entire exterior walls, open paths to attic areas that allow up-and-out airflow are avoided, et c). Modern houses become traps in extreme heat if the AC is off, not shelters.
morgango 3y ago
A simple answer is that there was more surface water and helped keep it cooler 150 years ago. For example, I lived in Tucson, AZ and there was a road nearby called "Silverlake" that at one time led to a silver lake with enough power to support a flour mill (see https://tucson.com/news/blogs/streetsmarts/street-smarts-silverlakes-namesake-made-a-splash-powered-flour-mills/article_e2a9abb0-9ff7-5264-bb67-999d19d06b78.html https://tucson.com/news/blogs/streetsmarts/street-smarts-sil...). Now it leads to apartments and houses and an Air Force base. More people + less water = hotter environment, even before climate change is factored in. A huge amount of the water in the area goes to agriculture as well.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  More paved surfaces too. Roads, driveways, highways, parking lots, etc.

gdubs 3y ago

The indigenous people of America had a much more intimate understanding of how to live on the land and survive. Kind of precisely the point is how our way of living relies on technology and infrastructure that we take for granted.

dendrite9 3y ago
Even then major loss of population seems to have occurred in the southwest at various times possibly connected to climate and droughts. Even with newer technology I suspect many houses built in Phoenix are dependent on AC, rather than being designed to have AC as a supplement. A number of years ago we had an HVAC issue at work on a sunny week. It was shocking how much harder it was to focus and work in the afternoon as the air got stuffy and hot. Our office had some options for airflow, but not many. I've been meaning to look into what ti would take to put some tints on the windows to reduce the heat in the summer.
- blacksmith_tb 3y ago
  Any window covering really needs to go on the outside (anything on the inside is too late, the energy is already heating up your room), so I'd recommend sunblocking fabric roller shades (Coolaroo is a popular Australian manufacturer, I have one, it's worked well for me on a west-facing deck).
  - dendrite9 3y ago
    Good point. Fortunately we're in a 2 story building so access isn't difficult. I think I might have a harder time selling the others on shades for now. At home I'm trying to grow some vines to shade some of the south facing windows but the real need is better attic insulation.
  - gdubs 3y ago
    Not entirely the case. When the sun passes through and starts beaming into objects in your room, the floor, etc, those objects then radiate that heat throughout the day.
    - blacksmith_tb 3y ago
      Yes, that's what I was suggesting, though even adding some kind of film (or especially shades and curtains) on the inside will potentially allow for more heating to occur than blocking or reflect the sunlight outside the structure.
- gdubs 3y ago
  3M makes a really good set of films to reduce both glare and solar gain — we had them put on some very large windows and it's definitely a difference. You have to go through a 3M contractor which is the only annoying aspect (although it's not a job I would have enjoyed doing so having a pro do it worked out in our case.)

TheChaplain 3y ago

People adapt. When I moved to south asia the heat and humidity really strained me, but after almost a year my body had adapted and I could easily wear a full suit without sweating liters.

givemeethekeys 3y ago

If 30% of Arizonians are fat, and many others are above 65 years of age, then maybe Phoenix is fucked. Source: https://patch.com/arizona/phoenix/how-obesity-rate-arizona-compares-other-states https://patch.com/arizona/phoenix/how-obesity-rate-arizona-c...

yamtaddle 3y ago
There's also such a thing as acclimatization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_and_heat_adaptations_in_humans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_and_heat_adaptations_in_h... If you're living in a hot area but used to AC, you're far less able to cope with loss of AC than someone who's been living without it the whole time. Further, modern dwellings are build with AC in mind. Older ones—by which I mean 50+ years ago, let alone dwellings the native people of the area lived in—were built with airflow & cooling in mind. They might be situated to take advantage of local conditions like shade or prevailing wind. Building for AC means some of that's less important, so gets ignored, and other aspects are deliberately broken to improve AC efficiency (window sizes shrink and there are fewer of them, maybe with none at all on some entire exterior walls, open paths to attic areas that allow up-and-out airflow are avoided, et c). Modern houses become traps in extreme heat if the AC is off, not shelters.

morgango 3y ago

A simple answer is that there was more surface water and helped keep it cooler 150 years ago. For example, I lived in Tucson, AZ and there was a road nearby called "Silverlake" that at one time led to a silver lake with enough power to support a flour mill (see https://tucson.com/news/blogs/streetsmarts/street-smarts-silverlakes-namesake-made-a-splash-powered-flour-mills/article_e2a9abb0-9ff7-5264-bb67-999d19d06b78.html https://tucson.com/news/blogs/streetsmarts/street-smarts-sil...). Now it leads to apartments and houses and an Air Force base. More people + less water = hotter environment, even before climate change is factored in. A huge amount of the water in the area goes to agriculture as well.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
More paved surfaces too. Roads, driveways, highways, parking lots, etc.