7 ms·

What's interesting is that trains are government-operated in France but airlines aren't. With this regulation, this effectively removed the only competitors to

What's interesting is that trains are government-operated in France but airlines aren't. With this regulation, this effectively removed the only competitors to the state-operated monopoly. It was always puzzling to me how operating expensive, fuel hungry airplanes could be cheaper and faster for the consumer than fast electric trains. But that's due to the intense competitive landscape in Europe for carriers (where any company from any European country can operate in any other country. Think Singapore Airline operating JFK-LAX). Now the state monopoly effectively regulated away competition. They don't need to offer a better, faster product. Guaranteed consumers. > I wonder if the government will follow these rules or it's just for regular people. The Président de la République is notorious for never taking the train, instead flying on a private wide-body A330. These laws are just for regular people.

jonp888 3y ago
SNCF is not a monopoly any more. European regulations also prevent this(although admittedly the French government delayed implementing them as long as the possibly could). There is already competition on the Paris - Lyon - Milan route, and more will follow.
- iggldiggl 3y ago
  > European regulations also prevent this […] There is already competition on the Paris - Lyon - Milan route, and more will follow. … which is a mixed blessing, because with railways, competition runs into the capacity limitations of the underlying infrastructure much sooner than is the case with planes or buses.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
themoonisachees 3y ago
Lack of market incentives isn't the only reason SNCF tickets are so expensive. A large part is that airline tickets are cheaper because airlines nickel and dime costumers while underpaying staff (for example, only paying them for time in the air when they spend time working on the ground). SNCF also technically operates at a loss. Despite posting 2.4B euros of profit in 2022, they only paid for 3B of their 10B investments, the rest paid by the state. Regardless, this legislation is not about promoting state-backed trains, it is about that air travel is an ecological disaster especially when the train is available. The only gripe i have with it is that some of these trips are currently more expensive via train than via air, which sucks for the consumers. People making these trips by plane often are not consumers though, they are corporations. In france, nobody in the bottom 60% of income would even consider taking the plane for pretty much any of the routes being cancelled. Some routes make sense (for example, Lyon -> Bordeaux still requires going through paris by train) but these are more than 2h30, so will still be operating.
- jrpt 3y ago
  I have heard multiple people claim some airline staff are only paid when flying but do you have a specific airline and role you can point to that this is true for? I asked a couple people I know in the airline industry who said, basically, they get paid extra for flight hours, but still have a salary and benefits like any normal business employee. The myth is people misunderstand "getting paid extra for flying" vs "not being paid at all when not flying." They also have per diems when out of town. This is for major US airlines.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    https://flightattendant.pro/flight-attendant-pay-explained/ https://flightattendant.pro/flight-attendant-pay-explained/
    - jrpt 3y ago
      That just says there’s flight pay and base compensation. It’s not much different than any salaried job where you happen to work extra hours some time, which dilutes your effective hourly rate, but it’s just part of the job.

jonp888 3y ago

SNCF is not a monopoly any more. European regulations also prevent this(although admittedly the French government delayed implementing them as long as the possibly could). There is already competition on the Paris - Lyon - Milan route, and more will follow.

iggldiggl 3y ago
> European regulations also prevent this […] There is already competition on the Paris - Lyon - Milan route, and more will follow. … which is a mixed blessing, because with railways, competition runs into the capacity limitations of the underlying infrastructure much sooner than is the case with planes or buses.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

themoonisachees 3y ago

Lack of market incentives isn't the only reason SNCF tickets are so expensive. A large part is that airline tickets are cheaper because airlines nickel and dime costumers while underpaying staff (for example, only paying them for time in the air when they spend time working on the ground). SNCF also technically operates at a loss. Despite posting 2.4B euros of profit in 2022, they only paid for 3B of their 10B investments, the rest paid by the state. Regardless, this legislation is not about promoting state-backed trains, it is about that air travel is an ecological disaster especially when the train is available. The only gripe i have with it is that some of these trips are currently more expensive via train than via air, which sucks for the consumers. People making these trips by plane often are not consumers though, they are corporations. In france, nobody in the bottom 60% of income would even consider taking the plane for pretty much any of the routes being cancelled. Some routes make sense (for example, Lyon -> Bordeaux still requires going through paris by train) but these are more than 2h30, so will still be operating.

jrpt 3y ago
I have heard multiple people claim some airline staff are only paid when flying but do you have a specific airline and role you can point to that this is true for? I asked a couple people I know in the airline industry who said, basically, they get paid extra for flight hours, but still have a salary and benefits like any normal business employee. The myth is people misunderstand "getting paid extra for flying" vs "not being paid at all when not flying." They also have per diems when out of town. This is for major US airlines.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  https://flightattendant.pro/flight-attendant-pay-explained/ https://flightattendant.pro/flight-attendant-pay-explained/
  - jrpt 3y ago
    That just says there’s flight pay and base compensation. It’s not much different than any salaried job where you happen to work extra hours some time, which dilutes your effective hourly rate, but it’s just part of the job.