4 ms·

> but giving teenagers zero privacy (to the extent of going through their personal messages) seems wild to me. Why? Teenagers are kids too, or have we forgott

by yumraj 3y ago

> but giving teenagers zero privacy (to the extent of going through their personal messages) seems wild to me. Why? Teenagers are kids too, or have we forgotten that? They are actually worse than kids in some respect, still immature but with changing body and new hormones. It may seem weird to them at this time, but hopefully they’ll appreciate when they grow older - or even if not, at least one did what they could.

slothtrop 3y ago
Teenagers also want and value privacy. Or have you forgotten what it's like?
- yumraj 3y ago
  > Or have you forgotten what it's like? We're simply talking privacy in the digital context. When I was a teenager the world looked different so I had N/A for digital privacy.
  - slothtrop 3y ago
    > the world looked different You're justifying invasion of privacy with vagueries about "the world being different". This isn't saying anything. Growing up in the 90s we had a home computer, and by extension, digital privacy.
    - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
      Another way to think of privacy (adult-free zone) is The Place Where The Critical Stuff Is Learned.
yamazakiwi 3y ago
My Parents gave me no privacy when I was a teenager. Guess what I learned? I learned that it was easier to lie and hide who I was than to be honest. I got better at lying and deceiving because it was a necessity. It was easy to get around their rules eventually; after all, I was a child with unlimited time and desperation to live my way. None of the children in my family talk to my parents anymore and most left home before 18.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  No one is advocating the extremes you mention. No on-device privacy is different than no privacy.
  - yamazakiwi 3y ago
    I'm not speaking in extremes and my story is more common than you think.
pxoe 3y ago
teens won't just 'want' privacy, they will get it, one way or another. and if it means excluding other people (like parents) from their communication loops, then so be it. thinking that 'you can let them know that you read their little messages, and that takes care of some things', or 'sure, they may want privacy, but what will they really do?'(literally anything incl. getting a burner phone lol), is just unrealistic. it creates more problems than it solves - well, if ending up with teens who won't talk to you about their actual private matters (and problems) and just keep that to themselves while putting up appearances, is even a problem for you. like, sure, they won't ever talk about their problems with you - but in a way, that means they have no problems (as it appears to you). so "problem solved". the realistic expectation, is that they will talk about some things and do some things, and you will not be part of those things (just by the nature of things, and whichever way it is, whether you're trying to surveil their chats or not, or just letting people have their own privacy), and all you can do is just hope that when something happens, they will be more inclined to talk to you and ask you for help, than not. setting it up in a way like 'i'm scanning your communications - and if something happens, it's gonna become a thing to deal with' - is not gonna help with that. it's setting up for it to be like 'i'm gonna try to avoid having anything out that could be seen by parents and become a thing'. not even 'avoiding getting into trouble' - but just 'avoiding writing about that trouble, or talking about that trouble with you'.
- yamazakiwi 3y ago
  This is exactly what happened to me. Having no privacy made me a skilled liar, so I have that to be thankful for at least.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Not everyone has such a combative relationship with their parents as you apparently had. It it is possible to be firm on dangers, still be understanding and calm, and let them have face-to-face conversations with privacy... even a beer once in a while or whatever else harmless thing that might excite them in other ways. Pick your battles in other words.
  - pxoe 3y ago
throwbadubadu 3y ago
> It may seem weird to them at this time, but hopefully they’ll appreciate when they grow older I have been raised differently, and with certain values. It is frustrating but ok to forbid or limit things, and to talk about issues. But to snoop through one's private messages or similar communication, that's completely disgusting and I would have what? Appreciated? No, never forgiven (works both ways btw, the trust). Especially at teenage age. I guess I shared voluntarily more with my parents and voiced issues than I would have in such circumstances, can just repeat: dis gus ting.

by yumraj 3y ago

slothtrop 3y ago

Teenagers also want and value privacy. Or have you forgotten what it's like?

yumraj 3y ago
> Or have you forgotten what it's like? We're simply talking privacy in the digital context. When I was a teenager the world looked different so I had N/A for digital privacy.
- slothtrop 3y ago
  > the world looked different You're justifying invasion of privacy with vagueries about "the world being different". This isn't saying anything. Growing up in the 90s we had a home computer, and by extension, digital privacy.
  - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
    Another way to think of privacy (adult-free zone) is The Place Where The Critical Stuff Is Learned.

yamazakiwi 3y ago

My Parents gave me no privacy when I was a teenager. Guess what I learned? I learned that it was easier to lie and hide who I was than to be honest. I got better at lying and deceiving because it was a necessity. It was easy to get around their rules eventually; after all, I was a child with unlimited time and desperation to live my way. None of the children in my family talk to my parents anymore and most left home before 18.

mixmastamyk 3y ago
No one is advocating the extremes you mention. No on-device privacy is different than no privacy.
- yamazakiwi 3y ago
  I'm not speaking in extremes and my story is more common than you think.

pxoe 3y ago

teens won't just 'want' privacy, they will get it, one way or another. and if it means excluding other people (like parents) from their communication loops, then so be it. thinking that 'you can let them know that you read their little messages, and that takes care of some things', or 'sure, they may want privacy, but what will they really do?'(literally anything incl. getting a burner phone lol), is just unrealistic. it creates more problems than it solves - well, if ending up with teens who won't talk to you about their actual private matters (and problems) and just keep that to themselves while putting up appearances, is even a problem for you. like, sure, they won't ever talk about their problems with you - but in a way, that means they have no problems (as it appears to you). so "problem solved". the realistic expectation, is that they will talk about some things and do some things, and you will not be part of those things (just by the nature of things, and whichever way it is, whether you're trying to surveil their chats or not, or just letting people have their own privacy), and all you can do is just hope that when something happens, they will be more inclined to talk to you and ask you for help, than not. setting it up in a way like 'i'm scanning your communications - and if something happens, it's gonna become a thing to deal with' - is not gonna help with that. it's setting up for it to be like 'i'm gonna try to avoid having anything out that could be seen by parents and become a thing'. not even 'avoiding getting into trouble' - but just 'avoiding writing about that trouble, or talking about that trouble with you'.

yamazakiwi 3y ago
This is exactly what happened to me. Having no privacy made me a skilled liar, so I have that to be thankful for at least.
mixmastamyk 3y ago
Not everyone has such a combative relationship with their parents as you apparently had. It it is possible to be firm on dangers, still be understanding and calm, and let them have face-to-face conversations with privacy... even a beer once in a while or whatever else harmless thing that might excite them in other ways. Pick your battles in other words.
- pxoe 3y ago

throwbadubadu 3y ago

> It may seem weird to them at this time, but hopefully they’ll appreciate when they grow older I have been raised differently, and with certain values. It is frustrating but ok to forbid or limit things, and to talk about issues. But to snoop through one's private messages or similar communication, that's completely disgusting and I would have what? Appreciated? No, never forgiven (works both ways btw, the trust). Especially at teenage age. I guess I shared voluntarily more with my parents and voiced issues than I would have in such circumstances, can just repeat: dis gus ting.