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Nintendo updates 3DS to block Bannerbomb3 despite eShop discontinuation
- olliecornelia 3y ago[flagged]
- kevingadd 3y ago[flagged]
- RajT88 3y agoAlways the long game with Nintendo. I am sure they think that a free-for-all on legacy consoles might take business away from selling the same titles on Switch. They might even be right! It's really hard to say.
- vlunkr 3y agoI really doubt it. The switch came out in 2017. The 3ds is a forgotten relic to the generation of kids who are growing up on the switch and getting their parents to buy the first party games. There’s certainly a niche for retro gamers, but if I were Nintendo I’d be more worried about the steam deck taking that audience.
- RajT88 3y agoYeah, I am not sold that it's a real financial threat to Nintendo. It could be! or not. I don't think there's enough public information to be able to say. However - having followed Nintendo for many years - I feel confident that that is their thinking in pushing this update.
- ant6n 3y agoWell, the piracy is preventing you from buying a new device, where u can buy old titles in the classic/retro category.
- lbussell 3y agoExcept.. you can't. There isn't a way to just buy the retro games anymore outside of Nintendo's subscription service for the Switch, and even then it's only a few hand-picked games. And you can forget trying to play 3DS games on the Switch.
- wiseowise 3y agoI’ll buy it in a heartbeat if they provide it in a convenient package. Until then Nintendo can get a load of deez.
- spondylosaurus 3y agoAnd homebrew isn't even exclusively used to facilitate piracy! Like, yeah, obviously it's a big draw. But installing CFW on your 3DS opens a whole world of other cool stuff too.
- wilsonnb3 3y ago“A big draw” is really underselling it, piracy is the reason for 97% of CFW users. The other 3% is things like rom hacks and save management, which Nintendo also wants to kill. Then there is a tiny, tiny sliver in the pie chart for the .0001% of people that are doing it just for the “other cool stuff” like custom themes.
- spondylosaurus 3y agoOh, for sure. I just mean there's a level of plausible deniability since CFW != piracy. I personally really enjoy the ability to take screenshots with CFW tools, which most 3DS games don't support natively.
- JansjoFromIkea 3y agoResults in the used market become blurry as to whether a 3DS will be hackable or not, which is probably enough of a barrier to block off anyone who'd consider getting one for homebrew that doesn't 100% know what they're at. Basically an effort to lock 3DS games into a vault until they can find a use for them. It happening so late into the 3DS life with basically anyone who wanted a hacked 3DS already having one it potentially reduces the amount of manpower that will go into finding an exploit too. I'd say they intentionally waited until after the eshop was closed to release this.
- OatmealDome 3y agoFor context, Bannerbomb3 is an exploit for the System Settings app. [0] It's used to launch a tool which installs some custom firmware on the device. [1] [0] https://github.com/zoogie/Bannerbomb3 https://github.com/zoogie/Bannerbomb3 [1] https://3ds.hacks.guide/ https://3ds.hacks.guide/
- spondylosaurus 3y agoThe good news is that it looks like this new patch won't affect anyone who always has Luma3DS custom firmware installed, and there are other methods for hacking your 3DS, but they're a lot more convoluted. The bannerbomb3 method was super easy and essentially foolproof. Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. Homebrew communities have been doing their damnedest to keep the 3DS (and its extensive library) alive... but that's Nintendo for ya.
- routerl 3y ago> Really shitty of Nintendo to sunset the console and then close the door behind them on the way out. The age of abandonware[0] is over. The promise of future earnings from streaming/downloads means all major content producers will lock down even out-of-print works, like consoles from previous generations. This is just another casualty of the fight we were having 20 years ago, re: copyright. We lost. It's over. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware
- asveikau 3y agoI feel like it probably costs them very little to keep every title listed for sale. They could be making revenue from it. Probably not as much as when the stuff was new, but something. I guess by cutting off supply of the old stuff, though, they can do re-releases and re-masters charging somewhat similar to the price of a new game, or get people to pay a monthly subscription fee for access.
- jeroenhd 3y agoKeeping stuff for sale can be expensive because of licensed assets. Licensed music has taken games down before and it will again. I don't know the publisher contracts Nintendo signs, but if there's a time duration in the contract, that may open up a very expensive "deal with keeping track of which developers relicensed their games" problem. That said, I 100% believe this is just a way for them to make sure you can't mod second hand 3DS consoles in five years time when they bring 3DS re-releases to the Switch.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoI interpret this as DS and 2DS games coming to Nintendo Switch Online at some point. Not terribly hard - just have the screens side-by-side, or rotate the Switch 90° for people who want the old experience. It could even be like how Nintendo is doing the Game Boy last year, with basic Game Boy on the standard plan and GBA with the Expansion pack. Basic DS games would be on the general Online plan, and newer 2DS/3DS games with the Expansion Pack.
- faluzure 3y agoI'm curious how the second screen experience will translate. Steam Deck emulators either hotkey the second screen or have a very tiny window on the side.
- Lammy 3y agoPresumably just like it did on WiiU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Virtual_Console_games_for_Wii_U_(North_America)#Nintendo_DS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Virtual_Console_games_... Which coincidentally was also how I modded my WiiU: https://github.com/smealum/haxchi https://github.com/smealum/haxchi
- danjoredd 3y agoThe WiiU had a second screen already. It was basically a home console version of the DS, so the games translated better there than on a typical console.
- b1ue64 3y agoMost DS emulators on PC just have it under the main screen
- wilsonnb3 3y agoCould just be remakes. For example, a switch port of Link Between Worlds is more valuable if you can’t easily buy a used 3DS and pirate it. But it is probably just Nintendo being protective of their IP and means nothing.
- radicaldreamer 3y agoThis is likely due to contract issues - there are many contracts, especially for digital distribution, which have an SLA built in for patching security issues for DRM content. These are basically provisions which allow the contract holder to claw back fees etc. if DRM is broken on a platform for a certain amount of time. Apple has these with music publishers, especially when the iTunes Store first launched.
- Salgat 3y agoI can guarantee you that if Nintendo says they aren't patching the console after it's sunsetted, publishers will still happily publish games on the console without that clause in the contract. This is still 100% on Nintendo.
- zamadatix 3y agoWhy would anyone agree to an distribution SLA which extends past the distribution lifetime? It also seems odd for such a contract to not matter for nearly 4 years while distribution was active. That's kind of lag would seem to defeat the purpose.
- jeroenhd 3y agoIt's hard to say how long "distribution lifetimes" are. If the 3DS flopped like the Wii U, it'd be foolish to sign a 5 year contract. Instead it became a success that went on to stay popular for ten years. Nintendo also isn't giving you a detailed timeline of their upcoming consoles if you're trying to sell games through their console. For all you know, the Switch 2 is right around the corner and signing a distributor contract now will launch your game onto a dead platform. Vagueness can be good in these cases.
- zamadatix 3y agoIn this case I'm referring to the distribution channel itself being shut down earlier this year. If I were going to pick any set amount of years, be it 5 or 10, I'd want the contract to include "or until the service is shut down" so I didn't have to keep updating it once it's gone (assuming this is really even the reason, as the previous 4 years seriously put into doubt).
- Dwedit 3y agoSTABILITY
- zachruss92 3y agoThis is a very Nintendo thing to do. I get it from a business perspective but it’s an easy way to really alienate a loyal audience.
- BowBun 3y agoAnd yet they've been antagonistic towards the modding/piracy community since the beginning and have one of the most loyal fan bases of any gaming brand. How do you explain that?
- snapcaster 3y agoBecause their games are better and more timeless than others. Going back to a nintendo game from 20 years ago is fun and rewarding, going back to a 20 year old game from EA or whoever is a miserable experience
- minusf 3y agothe doom community would like a word with you outside :) (and the whole gog crowd, me included as well)
- surgical_fire 3y agoHaving recently been in contact with MyHouse.wad, I have to agree. That map sent me in a rabbit hole of Doom modding that I simply was not even aware that existed and was active.
- snapcaster 3y agoI don't know what a gog crowd is but it sounds intimidating :)
- minusf 3y agogoold old games, gog.com
- 3y ago
- lostgame 3y agoI replied to a comment on some other Nintendo-related post here the other day that began with something like ‘…Nintendo isn’t petty enough to…’ - to which I jokingly replied that I’d stopped reading after that. Honestly - Nintendo is the pettiest and shittiest to its incredibly passionate fan base. Where SEGA hires people who have created great fan content, for instance; Nintendo sends out C&D’s. Nintendo shut off their own revenue stream by closing the 3DS store. That was their choice. They could still be making at least a bit of money from the 3DS store, but they chose not to. So…punish the homebrew devs for their own stupid decision? I have never been able to understand Nintendo’s behaviour, especially having grown up in the ROM hacking and fan gaming scene where SEGA and Nintendo could not be more parallel opposites.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoWell, here's actually an easy way to rationalize part of it: Sega doesn't represent anyone. They are in charge of their own games, and that's it. They feel free to allow, or disallow, people to do whatever they want with them. Also, Sega of Japan actually feels not that much love for Sonic and was surprised by his US success - they don't really care; but if you touched some of their other franchises on their home turf they'd have a little more bite. Nintendo, on the other hand, has wildly successful IP in Japan and the US; and also represents all of the developers on their platform. All it takes is for one developer to complain that people are pirating their old 3DS game and Nintendo should do something about it, and Nintendo doesn't really need to disagree and cause a 3rd-party developer to be upset. It's an easy enough fix, takes little effort, is a reasonable enough request, and keeps the relationship happy. Edit: Also, as I elaborate here, Sega has paid a price for lax copyright practices. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36048593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36048593
- vlunkr 3y agoI’m aware of sonic mania, has sega hired fans for other games?
- Lammy 3y agohttps://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PromotedFanboy/VideoGames https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/PromotedFanboy/VideoG...
- newaccount74 3y agoMy son still has a a 3DS. Does this update install automatically? Should I do something to prevent it?
- snvzz 3y agoOffline it.
- spiznnx 3y agoIt doesn't unhack a hacked 3DS, it just closes an exploit used to hack it in the first place. So I would add custom firmware first if that's something you want to do to it in the future.
- jeroenhd 3y agoIf you've installed custom firmware, you can update without any problems. If you haven't and still plan on doing so, keeping the console offline is your best bet. Deleting the WiFi network is the easiest way to make sure it doesn't update. I don't think 3DS online services are still popular but your son can probably tell you that. Hacking the thing took me two or three hours in total, with no hardware modification using the guide on https://3ds.hacks.guide/ https://3ds.hacks.guide/. Most of that was me being careful while reading the instructions and making backups, I'm pretty sure the entire process can be done in twenty minutes. Now that the eStore has been abandoned, it's the only way to play some eStore only titles so it's worth doing if you want to preserve that history.
- ihuman 3y agoThe update does not install automatically. You have to manually install it from the settings app.
- snvzz 3y agoDisgusting anti-consumer practices.
- gavaw 3y agoThey didn't update the firmware "to block Bannerbomb3", they fixed a bug in the Settings app.
- awestroke 3y agoSource?
- J5892 3y ago[flagged]
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago"Bannerbomb3" is referring to an exploit in their system settings which allowed for custom firmware to be installed on the device. So fixing the bug which allowed the exploit is what is considered to have "blocked Bannerbomb3". Personally, I think it's rather likely that Nintendo did this specifically to prevent their customers from installing custom firmware on devices they purchased, rather than because Nintendo wanted to fix a bug for any sort of perfectionist or altruistic ("user security") reasons. It can just be dressed up as a security issue, so that's what they do if they feel the need to justify it at all.
- skeaker 3y agoA bug that is entirely inconsequential except for the very very specific case of a user exploiting it deliberately on their own device to run Bannerbomb3. This is a pointless distinction, the tech equivalent of "I'm not punching you, I am just holding my fist up and running in your direction with my eyes closed and if you get hit it's your fault!"
- AdmiralAsshat 3y agoGiven that the eShop is gone, there's really no reason to take your 3DS out of airplane mode to receive the firmware update in the first place, right?
- JansjoFromIkea 3y agoAre online services gone with the eShop? Last I checked most games still seemed to work online (this was like a year ago though)
- hbn 3y agoThe eShop only shut down a couple months ago
- JansjoFromIkea 3y agoyeah, I meant if the online servers for games are still up (assuming they still are and they're not connected to the eShop, neither of which I can verify) then there's still a reason to go online on a 3DS in 2023. Looks like people are still playing MK7 online from a quick google so I assume the servers are still up.
- haunter 3y agoYou can still play online multiplayer games. Smash Bros, Mario Kart 7, Monster Hunter Stories PvP etc. The whole Pokemon Bank also works. They only removed the option in eShop to purchase new games, you can still also download everything you bought before.
- ihuman 3y agoYou don't have to put it in airplane mode. The 3ds can't update automatically; you have to manually go to the software update menu.
- jeroenhd 3y agoI wonder why anyone would update. It's not like new games are going to refuse to run unless you update and the online services that validate your firmware have all shut down. Why even bother?
- haunter 3y ago>and the online services that validate your firmware have all shut down Nope. Online multiplayer games still work. They only removed the feature to buy new games from the eShop.
- fnordpiglet 3y agoI know nothing about the context behind this (not even totally sure what 3DS is other than some console that didn’t register on my radar). But it looks really interesting. Is there a summary available of the problem, the solution bannerbomb3 offered, what Nintendo did? What I read this update it didn’t seem more than a security update? I see folks talking about this closing the door behind them after ending the console etc. Is this blocking side loading? Sorry for all the profoundly noob/dumb questions but it looks interesting and I’m really interested.
- OatmealDome 3y agoThe Nintendo 3DS was a handheld gaming console released in 2011. Like many other gaming consoles, you can only run software that is approved by the manufacturer on it. To run your own software ("homebrew"), one has to exploit flaws in the OS and use them to remove these restrictions. One side effect of homebrew is that it often leads to piracy of approved software. One of the most common step-by-step guides that help users install homebrew uses an exploit called Bannerbomb3 to run the installer. [0] By inserting a malformed DSiWare application onto the SD card, the System Settings app can be crashed in such a way that facilitates arbitrary code execution. The loaded program is then used to install custom firmware. In March 2023, Nintendo shut down the eShop, the digital software storefront for the Nintendo 3DS, effectively ending most support for the console. After this happened, many people started advocating homebrew-ing 3DSes to allow pirated software to be installed on them, since purchasing software digitally could no longer be done. Now, 2 months later, Nintendo has decided to issue a firmware update that patches the Bannerbomb3 exploit, preventing new 3DS systems from being homebrewed in this fashion if they are on the latest firmware. (It should be noted that there are many, many more exploits for the 3DS [1], so I'm not sure why they've decided to fix this exact one.) [0] https://3ds.hacks.guide https://3ds.hacks.guide [1] https://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Exploits https://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Exploits
- skeaker 3y agoThe 3DS is the Nintendo handheld that followed the DS. It has a very robust homebrew scene due to having a passionate community and not so good security. Homebrew allowed for a ton of new features including surprisingly strong emulation, customizing system menus, running your own code, patching of other games at runtime for modding/translating, etc. Obviously it also opened the door to piracy which makes it something Nintendo is eager to shut down. 3DS hit EoL a while ago (users can no longer make legitimate purchases through Nintendo), yet despite months having gone by since then Nintendo has decided to go back and patch up one of the more convenient methods for enabling homebrew which is something that is considered a dick move since they weren't making money off of it anymore anyways and even if they were it is YOUR SYSTEM and you should be able to do what you want with it. Fortunately there are unpatchable zero-day exploits for the system but they are not as easy as the one that Nintendo patched. Homebrew on Nintendo consoles has always had a really interesting scene but it really took off with the Wii and everything after it. Hackers would keep finding ways to get into everything and Nintendo would hastily patch it up in a sort of live cat and mouse game. The exploit that Nintendo patched just recently is not hard to do, but older exploits were even easier. One of the earlier 3DS exploits was to simply drop a modified audio file onto your SD card and play it in the 3DS audio player. You would own the whole device in ten seconds flat.
- grapesurgeon 3y ago[dead]
- x-complexity 3y agoNintendo currently has a large devout fanbase that will defend the company till death, purely because of childhood nostalgia. Until said fanbase is gone (which is almost never), Nintendo can effectively do whatever they want to modders & homebrewers, with the fanbase continuing to buy Nintendo's products without question.
- astura 3y agoSorry, but this is idiotic - Nintendo fanboys are also the biggest critics of Nintendo and are always whining and complaining about Nintendo and their decisions. Nobody is defending Nintendo, ever, it's a nonstop whinefest - "Nintendo is not giving me this," "Nintendo is not giving me that," "Nintendo hates it's customers." Someone here even said they felt personally betrayed by Nintendo because they bought a Wii U and then Nintendo never released a Zelda title exclusively on that console. That's pathologic.
- x-complexity 3y ago> Sorry, but this is idiotic - Nintendo fanboys are also the biggest critics of Nintendo and are always whining and complaining about Nintendo and their decisions. Nobody is defending Nintendo, ever, it's a nonstop whinefest - "Nintendo is not giving me this," "Nintendo is not giving me that," "Nintendo hates it's customers." > Someone here even said they felt personally betrayed by Nintendo because they bought a Wii U and then Nintendo never released a Zelda title exclusively on that console. That's pathologic. Nevertheless, they still buy their games & consoles. Such criticisms have near-zero value if said fans keep buying Nintendo's products.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- daneel_w 3y agoThis is somehow so very Nintendo. They're like this grade school jerk kid who when done playing soccer with the other kids insist on kicking the ball straight to hell just so nobody else can keep playing after they're done. You'll pry my Luma3DS-fixed console out of my cold dead hands.