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So the hypothesis about this from the traditional metalheads I know including myself, at least since the late 90s has been: Lars isn’t a consistent drummer and

So the hypothesis about this from the traditional metalheads I know including myself, at least since the late 90s has been: Lars isn’t a consistent drummer and Metallica aren’t particularly “tight” of a band. This isn’t really seen as bad though, more like ”despite the fact that they aren’t as tight as say… Devin Townsend, Chuck Schuldiner, Neal Pert etc…they have the heaviest music“ So while this theory is great, it doesn’t disprove the folk theory that Lars sucks.

Demiurge 3y ago
If this this just Lars fault, and the band is not tight, how do you explain the consistency of the delay each time the riff is played? How likely do you think this is, statistically speaking?
- visualphoenix 3y ago
  If it’s true that Flemming Rasmussen hand edited every beat of the drum track, that explains the statistics and consistency.
  - CWuestefeld 3y ago
    Back in the pre-digital era that this was recorded in, I think this would have been impractical. Today, every piece of pop music, at least, is quantized to the point where the accuracy is perfect, but also sterile of feeling, as discussed in any number of Rick Beato videos.
  - mikeryan 3y ago
    IIRC those rumors were post Flemming and started in the Bob Rock era. And Justice For All was his last album at the helm and that was 1988 still to early to do that sort of thing digitally (ProTools came out in the early 90s) and no one is hand cutting tape for each beat. Even the Black Album is still early for that level of manipulation in 1991. Which isn't to say he didn't use a click or many many takes and tracks to help ...
  - gopher_space 3y ago
    It'd be interesting to find out how many times they practiced that song before recording it. It's hard to overstate how much time and attention people had before ubiquitous cell phones and internet.
- colanderman 3y ago
  It's very easy to consistently play a rhythm incorrectly. I have done and heard this many times as a musician.
  - PeterisP 3y ago
    How do you define "incorrectly"? IMHO the author of the song consistently plays it one way, then that's the correct execution of that rhythm, and playing it differently would be a different rhythm, not the one intended.
    - colanderman 3y ago
      I should have used scare quotes. "In a way which someone other than the performer may call incorrect." Which is the case here. I guess my point is, playing "accurately" (according to the traditional musical rhythmic grid) and "precisely" (repeatably) are independent skills. I for one am stronger in the latter than the former.
      - PeterisP 3y ago
        I'd say that playing from notation and notating what's played are two very different things - in the latter, any difference between notation and execution means that it's the notation that is inaccurate; and in this particular case (as with quite a few others) the traditional notation system is too limited to properly notate this part of the song, as that 5/8 measure is the closest thing that can be reasonably written, but it's wrong because that part of the song is not really 5/8 but something like 5.3/8 ..
  - luckydata 3y ago
    in this case he's the author of the music so whatever he plays is correct
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  Well there two different Larses. There's the young driven, actually trying Lars of the 80s. He was great, AJFA was pretty ahead of its time as far as metal drumming goes. Then you got the ageing, not keeping shape, rich Lars who's become somewhat infamous for not being a very tight drummer, and that's definitely been true for several periods of his later career. He's also well know for having a somewhat unconventional and mechanically inefficient technique. This was fine when he was younger, and less fine once he started getting older.
CPLX 3y ago
Any theory stating that Lars sucks at playing drums has an unstated premise that there's some other core purpose to playing drums more important than creating music that people find enjoyable.
- bigbacaloa 3y ago
  I don't enjoy Metallica because their playing is sloppy and their rhythm is bad. It might be part of the cause is that they aren't as good musicians as their fans think. It might just be that I don't like them.

Demiurge 3y ago

If this this just Lars fault, and the band is not tight, how do you explain the consistency of the delay each time the riff is played? How likely do you think this is, statistically speaking?

visualphoenix 3y ago
If it’s true that Flemming Rasmussen hand edited every beat of the drum track, that explains the statistics and consistency.
- CWuestefeld 3y ago
  Back in the pre-digital era that this was recorded in, I think this would have been impractical. Today, every piece of pop music, at least, is quantized to the point where the accuracy is perfect, but also sterile of feeling, as discussed in any number of Rick Beato videos.
- mikeryan 3y ago
  IIRC those rumors were post Flemming and started in the Bob Rock era. And Justice For All was his last album at the helm and that was 1988 still to early to do that sort of thing digitally (ProTools came out in the early 90s) and no one is hand cutting tape for each beat. Even the Black Album is still early for that level of manipulation in 1991. Which isn't to say he didn't use a click or many many takes and tracks to help ...
- gopher_space 3y ago
  It'd be interesting to find out how many times they practiced that song before recording it. It's hard to overstate how much time and attention people had before ubiquitous cell phones and internet.
colanderman 3y ago
It's very easy to consistently play a rhythm incorrectly. I have done and heard this many times as a musician.
- PeterisP 3y ago
  How do you define "incorrectly"? IMHO the author of the song consistently plays it one way, then that's the correct execution of that rhythm, and playing it differently would be a different rhythm, not the one intended.
  - colanderman 3y ago
    I should have used scare quotes. "In a way which someone other than the performer may call incorrect." Which is the case here. I guess my point is, playing "accurately" (according to the traditional musical rhythmic grid) and "precisely" (repeatably) are independent skills. I for one am stronger in the latter than the former.
    - PeterisP 3y ago
      I'd say that playing from notation and notating what's played are two very different things - in the latter, any difference between notation and execution means that it's the notation that is inaccurate; and in this particular case (as with quite a few others) the traditional notation system is too limited to properly notate this part of the song, as that 5/8 measure is the closest thing that can be reasonably written, but it's wrong because that part of the song is not really 5/8 but something like 5.3/8 ..
- luckydata 3y ago
  in this case he's the author of the music so whatever he plays is correct
mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Well there two different Larses. There's the young driven, actually trying Lars of the 80s. He was great, AJFA was pretty ahead of its time as far as metal drumming goes. Then you got the ageing, not keeping shape, rich Lars who's become somewhat infamous for not being a very tight drummer, and that's definitely been true for several periods of his later career. He's also well know for having a somewhat unconventional and mechanically inefficient technique. This was fine when he was younger, and less fine once he started getting older.

CPLX 3y ago

Any theory stating that Lars sucks at playing drums has an unstated premise that there's some other core purpose to playing drums more important than creating music that people find enjoyable.

bigbacaloa 3y ago
I don't enjoy Metallica because their playing is sloppy and their rhythm is bad. It might be part of the cause is that they aren't as good musicians as their fans think. It might just be that I don't like them.