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> Moreover, in line with this, Quijada has stated he does not believe a speaker would think necessarily any faster because even though Ithkuil is terse, a singl

> Moreover, in line with this, Quijada has stated he does not believe a speaker would think necessarily any faster because even though Ithkuil is terse, a single word requires a lot more thought before it can be spoken than it would in a natural language. I can't imagine what this is like to think before I have words to describe them. My current thought process is an inner monologue and I can't imagine how I'd think if I couldn't put words to my ideas immediately.

stefncb 3y ago
It happens in any other language too, at least for me. Sometimes you have a thought but can't quite put it into words. My guess is that it's simply more pronounced in Ithkuil. Also, anecdotally, my inner monologue is sometimes behind my "real" thoughts. I can think faster than I can speak, even in my own head.
- masklinn 3y ago
  It’s also super common with multiple languages, where you know what you mean in one language, but have trouble expressing it in an other.
ajuc 3y ago
Do you ever think in images or actions? For example when I'm navigating in a new place I sometimes have this "reorientation moment" when I thought something is forward, but I realize it's actually to the right. At the moment it feels like I have a map of the world in my mind and it rotates around me :) I get slight vertigo even :) As for actions you probably don't think to yourself "I should kick the ball in 3.. 2.. 1.. now! with THIS amount of spin and THAT power" - you just kick it when it's appropriate. Inner monologue would be too slow and too imprecise to think about these things. The same mode of thinking works for other things too. For example bad habits are automatic - you don't need to think "I should alt-tab to browser and open hackernews" - it's one thought expressed without language.
juujian 3y ago
I mean, how do I even know what I say before I said it? Speaking is such a social act, you can definitely pan out and say a few words (even if it's fillers) before your brain catches up and you create a plan. And then you adjust your plan based on audience response. The obsession with precision is strange. Vagueness in spoken language is a feature, not a bug. It makes social situations easier to navigate if you have an "out".
- ajuc 3y ago
  Different languages are precise and vague in different domains. For example English requires articles. You can have a book or the book. You cannot just have book. In my native language we don't have articles. If I want to specify it's "a" book I can (with the word to the effect of "some"), if I want to specify it's "the" book I can (with the equivalent of "this" or "that"). But by default we don't care. On the other hand every verb encodes gender in my language. So when author wrote in English "Somebody in the audience said >I was with you<" - the translator has to guess what was the gender of that person. Because "was" is a different word depending on the gender of that person :) EDIT: I'm -> I was, because in present tense verbs can be the same :)
  - stefncb 3y ago
    What's your native language?
    - Joker_vD 3y ago
      I'd guess it's one of the non-Southern Slavic languages (e.g. Polish or Russian): those languages repurposed what used to be past participles (and so, just like adjectives, had genders) to be past tense verbs themselves. The Southern ones (e.g. Bulgarian) did not do this.
      - ajuc 3y ago
        Yup, Polish.
      - 3y ago
quirkot 3y ago
That's totally wild. A huge part of my experience is trying to cram my thoughts into words that so rarely seem to fit. Makes texting (or any text communication without other context) stressful

stefncb 3y ago

It happens in any other language too, at least for me. Sometimes you have a thought but can't quite put it into words. My guess is that it's simply more pronounced in Ithkuil. Also, anecdotally, my inner monologue is sometimes behind my "real" thoughts. I can think faster than I can speak, even in my own head.

masklinn 3y ago
It’s also super common with multiple languages, where you know what you mean in one language, but have trouble expressing it in an other.

ajuc 3y ago

Do you ever think in images or actions? For example when I'm navigating in a new place I sometimes have this "reorientation moment" when I thought something is forward, but I realize it's actually to the right. At the moment it feels like I have a map of the world in my mind and it rotates around me :) I get slight vertigo even :) As for actions you probably don't think to yourself "I should kick the ball in 3.. 2.. 1.. now! with THIS amount of spin and THAT power" - you just kick it when it's appropriate. Inner monologue would be too slow and too imprecise to think about these things. The same mode of thinking works for other things too. For example bad habits are automatic - you don't need to think "I should alt-tab to browser and open hackernews" - it's one thought expressed without language.

juujian 3y ago

I mean, how do I even know what I say before I said it? Speaking is such a social act, you can definitely pan out and say a few words (even if it's fillers) before your brain catches up and you create a plan. And then you adjust your plan based on audience response. The obsession with precision is strange. Vagueness in spoken language is a feature, not a bug. It makes social situations easier to navigate if you have an "out".

ajuc 3y ago
Different languages are precise and vague in different domains. For example English requires articles. You can have a book or the book. You cannot just have book. In my native language we don't have articles. If I want to specify it's "a" book I can (with the word to the effect of "some"), if I want to specify it's "the" book I can (with the equivalent of "this" or "that"). But by default we don't care. On the other hand every verb encodes gender in my language. So when author wrote in English "Somebody in the audience said >I was with you<" - the translator has to guess what was the gender of that person. Because "was" is a different word depending on the gender of that person :) EDIT: I'm -> I was, because in present tense verbs can be the same :)
- stefncb 3y ago
  What's your native language?
  - Joker_vD 3y ago
    I'd guess it's one of the non-Southern Slavic languages (e.g. Polish or Russian): those languages repurposed what used to be past participles (and so, just like adjectives, had genders) to be past tense verbs themselves. The Southern ones (e.g. Bulgarian) did not do this.
    - ajuc 3y ago
      Yup, Polish.
    - 3y ago

quirkot 3y ago

That's totally wild. A huge part of my experience is trying to cram my thoughts into words that so rarely seem to fit. Makes texting (or any text communication without other context) stressful