4 ms·

Specifically in this context -- 9/11 and perceived ongoing threats from international terror. A shocking and terrible event happens, a report identifies that i

by ethbr0 3y ago

Specifically in this context -- 9/11 and perceived ongoing threats from international terror. A shocking and terrible event happens, a report identifies that intelligence agencies collectively had all the pieces to prevent it but were unable to see the entire picture due to compartmentalization, and the country decreases that compartmentalization. Cause, reflection, and effect. After that, it's been the intertia of "hidden privacy erosion" vs "visible perception of safety." (Yes, actual safety has poor statistical support) But democracies generally discount hidden evils and multiply visible goods when voting.

yonaguska 3y ago
Not to detract from your point, which I agree with- it's very arguable that the order is wrong. The Patriot Act was written and ready before 9/11- it just needed a catalyst to allow it to be passed.
- mcculley 3y ago
  > The Patriot Act was written and ready before 9/11 Do you have a citation for this assertion?
  - cronix 3y ago
    Feel free to watch this interview with Bill Binney, who was technical director of the NSA at the time. He goes over it in detail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs
    - mcculley 3y ago
      I am aware of ThinThread. The assertion made was "The Patriot Act was written and ready before 9/11". Do you have any specific pointers into where in this 2 hour 35 minute video that claim is made? Or better yet, does anyone have a pointer to anything in writing?
      - lazide 3y ago
        Not replying to the original assertion - it was passed 45 days after 9/11, and was 131 pages and 1016 sections.
        mcculley 3y ago
        Yes. I believe that myopic, reactive legislators were able to go to the NSA/CIA/FBI and get lots of input on what they would like in a new bill. I am skeptical that "the Patriot Act was written and ready before 9/11".
judge2020 3y ago
9/11 is what people point to but it's really just modern national security ops. We live in a time of peace for those lucky enough to be in developed nations with democracies, but war is always one button press away. When WW3 happens any and all information will be an asset for maintaining stability and enabling attacks in wartime operations, particularly with how the next world war will be fought by causing direct harm to the economy and companies of foreign nations via cyber attacks and stealing information.
cronix 3y ago
Bill Binney, technical director of NSA at that time, disagrees. He already had a system in place that heavily used filters to only collect what was needed and excluded citizens, which was called "ThinThread." Later, Gen Michael Hayden (NSA Director at the time) switched priorities and went after everything, called TrailBlazer. They got way too much data and couldn't sift through it, even though they had the info in their systems. Binney quit the day after 911 and later revealed the program and the Gov't went after him, along with Thomas Drake and others. I'd watch the linked interview below. It gets really interesting when Binney talks about how much money and contracts were awarded to make TrailBlazer. All of the data storage, etc. Huge, massive contracts to keep it going. It also greatly increased their annual budget. ThinThread was internal, and fairly cheap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinThread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinThread A very good interview with Binney who discusses this and a lot more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs

by ethbr0 3y ago

yonaguska 3y ago

Not to detract from your point, which I agree with- it's very arguable that the order is wrong. The Patriot Act was written and ready before 9/11- it just needed a catalyst to allow it to be passed.

mcculley 3y ago
> The Patriot Act was written and ready before 9/11 Do you have a citation for this assertion?
- cronix 3y ago
  Feel free to watch this interview with Bill Binney, who was technical director of the NSA at the time. He goes over it in detail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs
  - mcculley 3y ago
    I am aware of ThinThread. The assertion made was "The Patriot Act was written and ready before 9/11". Do you have any specific pointers into where in this 2 hour 35 minute video that claim is made? Or better yet, does anyone have a pointer to anything in writing?
    - lazide 3y ago
      Not replying to the original assertion - it was passed 45 days after 9/11, and was 131 pages and 1016 sections.
      - mcculley 3y ago
        Yes. I believe that myopic, reactive legislators were able to go to the NSA/CIA/FBI and get lots of input on what they would like in a new bill. I am skeptical that "the Patriot Act was written and ready before 9/11".

judge2020 3y ago

9/11 is what people point to but it's really just modern national security ops. We live in a time of peace for those lucky enough to be in developed nations with democracies, but war is always one button press away. When WW3 happens any and all information will be an asset for maintaining stability and enabling attacks in wartime operations, particularly with how the next world war will be fought by causing direct harm to the economy and companies of foreign nations via cyber attacks and stealing information.

cronix 3y ago

Bill Binney, technical director of NSA at that time, disagrees. He already had a system in place that heavily used filters to only collect what was needed and excluded citizens, which was called "ThinThread." Later, Gen Michael Hayden (NSA Director at the time) switched priorities and went after everything, called TrailBlazer. They got way too much data and couldn't sift through it, even though they had the info in their systems. Binney quit the day after 911 and later revealed the program and the Gov't went after him, along with Thomas Drake and others. I'd watch the linked interview below. It gets really interesting when Binney talks about how much money and contracts were awarded to make TrailBlazer. All of the data storage, etc. Huge, massive contracts to keep it going. It also greatly increased their annual budget. ThinThread was internal, and fairly cheap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinThread https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinThread A very good interview with Binney who discusses this and a lot more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3owk7vEEOvs