4 ms·

Hot take. Europe cannot compete without working closer with african countries. Same time zone, geographic proximity, many existing commercial relations, economi

Hot take. Europe cannot compete without working closer with african countries. Same time zone, geographic proximity, many existing commercial relations, economic complementarity, logistics etc. This will allow this hypothetical Eurafrican block to become extremely competitive with East Asia giants (China & friends, India), and with NA (USA, Canada, wait until Mexico wakes up). I believe the balance of powers will change when the Nigeria-Morocco gas pipeline [0] opens up, connecting all coastal countries of West Africa (already working to a certain extent together as ECOWAS [1], with a unified currency [2], not without its warts of course) and significantly bringing down the price of energy in the region. [0]: https://www.gem.wiki/Nigeria-Morocco_Gas_Pipeline https://www.gem.wiki/Nigeria-Morocco_Gas_Pipeline [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Community_of_West_African_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Community_of_West_Afr... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFA_franc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFA_franc

iloledthanks 3y ago
[flagged]
mathieuh 3y ago
What would prevent this from becoming another round of colonialism?
- omneity 3y ago
  No one said this comes without challenges, just like every great opportunity. But it can be handled with solid business acumen. Unlike the (bloody and disgusting) past, the african diaspora as well as the local actors have a much better education and understanding of various global dynamics, as well as (some) level of local infrastructure. China did manage to improve its side of the trade equation, not without sacrifices for sure. Arguably, it was also already a unified large nation and it just needed to "direct" its energy. In the case of Africa, we're talking about 54 countries, organized in 8 regional communities [0]. RECs are functional at different levels (some are completely dysfunctional such as the UMA - the North African community), and there's a lot of coordination work to do. But I believe working together towards a shared goal would do a massive uplifting job for the second continent in terms of land and population size and unlock an incredible future for the 1.3B africans today. [0]: https://au.int/en/recs https://au.int/en/recs
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    I'd also hazard that global peer to peer information networks and the visibility they provide has increased the domestic repercussions of the worst external state-sponsored exploitation of Africa. Colonialism seemed to work in large part on "You see diamonds appearing in your western country -- you don't see people being beaten, in poverty, and leaders assassinated in the places those diamonds come from." Western media's eye is fickle, but the optimist in me likes to thing that western governments wouldn't get away with the overt shit they pulled in the 60s and 70s these days.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  If east eu is any indication of how things will develop, then it’s guaranteed to end up with colonialism.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Indeed. EU should first fix the internal squabbles, turmoil and issues (rising youth unemployment, rising inequality, illegal immigration, housing crisis, rising extremism, etc), before expanding to other continents.
    - Jenk 3y ago
      Which squabbles would you say it must fix?
      - gumballindie 3y ago
        Instead of negotiation and mutually beneficial arrangements what you get are threats, sanctions and slander. It’s not unheard of the eu meddling in the internal affairs of sovereign member states, not only east but south and in some cases north west european. It is usually those yielding disproportionate power that impose their will on the rest. Sometimes with deadly geopolitical consequences.
      - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
        Austria who keeps veto-ing Romania's Schengen application with bullshit reasons that don't hold water, is the first example I can think of but there are many more. Also anti-nuclear Austria who sued Hungary over building a new nuclear powerplant. And there are several other examples between other countries, on other topics as well. Basically the countries with veto power on certain topics that benefit the greater good of the union, abuse it to bully the others, in order to get concessions on non-related topics that only benefit their own agenda. It's basically a mafia shakedown because some want to have their cake and eat it too. It's better than going to war against each other like in the past over such things, but this constant squabbling and the sheer pettiness, is holding EU development back compared to US and China.
- BurningFrog 3y ago
  Don't send armies, only goods, services, and payments.
- Barrin92 3y ago
  For one virtually nobody has any interest in colonialism, not just from a moral but even from a self-interested standpoint. Colonialism is a huge drain. One of the major reasons for France to unwind its colonial presence in the first place was to reduce political, military and economic burdens that came with maintaining an empire. The negative consequences are arguably visible in Britain which stayed in empire mode quite a bit longer than its peers and lost a lot of global industrial competitiveness as a result.
gavaw 3y ago
You forget the part wher African countries have terrible political stability and no money. The only way of making this work would be neocolonialism, which is ok imo (in the end it benefits both parties), but it's frowned upon by some political circles.
- BurningFrog 3y ago
  Since 1-3 decades, Africa is developing quite nicely and peacefully. I read somewhere that they're ~100 years behind economically, but are catching up 3 years per year
  - runsWphotons 3y ago
    This is true of some countries in Africa and bot of others, so depends where.
  - omneity 3y ago
    Don’t forget the boost factor from new technology appearing. Even something as core and basic as farming benefits immensely from technology such as drones (better information), mobile phones and data (faster communication and coordination), and now AI (cheap personalized on-demand expert advice). With the current progress of tech and barring any catastrophic event, soon enough it will become trivial technologically speaking to meet all human needs on any location on earth at a very low cost.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- omneity 3y ago
  Many african countries are extremely resource rich. They do have money, but also corruption sapping a lot of it away. That and I don’t think political instability is a fact of life. I like to think of it through Maslow’s pyramid of human needs. As the lower layers start to be satisfied, even the conduits for violent impulses change in nature (from physical fights to toxic gaming behavior let’s say). As Africa lifts itself and addresses the basic needs of its population, many of the challenges it is currently experiencing will start to fade away. It’s a bit of a chicken and egg problem but I also happen to be an optimist :)
TMWNN 3y ago
> Hot take. Europe cannot compete without working closer with african countries. Why hasn't this happened in 60 years of post-colonialism? From 1961 to 2015 <http://www.worldeconomics.com/papers/Global%20Growth%20Monitor_7c66ffca-ff86-4e4c-979d-7c5d7a22ef21.paper http://www.worldeconomics.com/papers/Global%20Growth%20Monit...>, real GDP per capita in Africa grew by 1.1% annually (!), compared to 3.9% for Asia, 1.7% for the Americas, and 2.2% for Europe. Growth from 2001 to 2010 of 2.9% is included in that figure; it was the first decade in that period in which Africa outgrew any other continent. GDP per capita in US 1990 dollars <http://www.worldeconomics.com/Data/MadisonHistoricalGDP/Madison%20Historical%20GDP%20Data.efp http://www.worldeconomics.com/Data/MadisonHistoricalGDP/Madi...> for several African countries: Country | 1980 | 2008 -------------|------|------ Algeria | 3152 | 3520 Botswana | 1765 | 4769 Cameroon | 1192 | 1212 Gabon | 6777 | 3811 Ivory Coast | 2041 | 1095 Kenya | 1051 | 1098 Liberia | 1162 | 802 Madagascar | 1054 | 730 Malawi | 630 | 744 Mauritius | 4367 | 14529 Niger | 810 | 514 Nigeria | 1305 | 1524 Seychelles | 4444 | 6109 South Africa | 4390 | 4793 Zimbabwe | 1295 | 779 For every Mauritius, Botswana, and Seychelles there is a Zimbabwe, Niger, and Ivory Coast. >wait until Mexico wakes up Mexico is, while poorer than the US or Canada or Western Europe, so, so, so much wealthier than anywhere in Africa (including South Africa and Zimbabwe/Rhodesia, both once with more or less first-world wealth) that there is no comparison.

iloledthanks 3y ago

[flagged]

mathieuh 3y ago

What would prevent this from becoming another round of colonialism?

omneity 3y ago
No one said this comes without challenges, just like every great opportunity. But it can be handled with solid business acumen. Unlike the (bloody and disgusting) past, the african diaspora as well as the local actors have a much better education and understanding of various global dynamics, as well as (some) level of local infrastructure. China did manage to improve its side of the trade equation, not without sacrifices for sure. Arguably, it was also already a unified large nation and it just needed to "direct" its energy. In the case of Africa, we're talking about 54 countries, organized in 8 regional communities [0]. RECs are functional at different levels (some are completely dysfunctional such as the UMA - the North African community), and there's a lot of coordination work to do. But I believe working together towards a shared goal would do a massive uplifting job for the second continent in terms of land and population size and unlock an incredible future for the 1.3B africans today. [0]: https://au.int/en/recs https://au.int/en/recs
- ethbr0 3y ago
  I'd also hazard that global peer to peer information networks and the visibility they provide has increased the domestic repercussions of the worst external state-sponsored exploitation of Africa. Colonialism seemed to work in large part on "You see diamonds appearing in your western country -- you don't see people being beaten, in poverty, and leaders assassinated in the places those diamonds come from." Western media's eye is fickle, but the optimist in me likes to thing that western governments wouldn't get away with the overt shit they pulled in the 60s and 70s these days.
gumballindie 3y ago
If east eu is any indication of how things will develop, then it’s guaranteed to end up with colonialism.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Indeed. EU should first fix the internal squabbles, turmoil and issues (rising youth unemployment, rising inequality, illegal immigration, housing crisis, rising extremism, etc), before expanding to other continents.
  - Jenk 3y ago
    Which squabbles would you say it must fix?
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      Instead of negotiation and mutually beneficial arrangements what you get are threats, sanctions and slander. It’s not unheard of the eu meddling in the internal affairs of sovereign member states, not only east but south and in some cases north west european. It is usually those yielding disproportionate power that impose their will on the rest. Sometimes with deadly geopolitical consequences.
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      Austria who keeps veto-ing Romania's Schengen application with bullshit reasons that don't hold water, is the first example I can think of but there are many more. Also anti-nuclear Austria who sued Hungary over building a new nuclear powerplant. And there are several other examples between other countries, on other topics as well. Basically the countries with veto power on certain topics that benefit the greater good of the union, abuse it to bully the others, in order to get concessions on non-related topics that only benefit their own agenda. It's basically a mafia shakedown because some want to have their cake and eat it too. It's better than going to war against each other like in the past over such things, but this constant squabbling and the sheer pettiness, is holding EU development back compared to US and China.
BurningFrog 3y ago
Don't send armies, only goods, services, and payments.
Barrin92 3y ago
For one virtually nobody has any interest in colonialism, not just from a moral but even from a self-interested standpoint. Colonialism is a huge drain. One of the major reasons for France to unwind its colonial presence in the first place was to reduce political, military and economic burdens that came with maintaining an empire. The negative consequences are arguably visible in Britain which stayed in empire mode quite a bit longer than its peers and lost a lot of global industrial competitiveness as a result.

gavaw 3y ago

You forget the part wher African countries have terrible political stability and no money. The only way of making this work would be neocolonialism, which is ok imo (in the end it benefits both parties), but it's frowned upon by some political circles.

BurningFrog 3y ago
Since 1-3 decades, Africa is developing quite nicely and peacefully. I read somewhere that they're ~100 years behind economically, but are catching up 3 years per year
- runsWphotons 3y ago
  This is true of some countries in Africa and bot of others, so depends where.
- omneity 3y ago
  Don’t forget the boost factor from new technology appearing. Even something as core and basic as farming benefits immensely from technology such as drones (better information), mobile phones and data (faster communication and coordination), and now AI (cheap personalized on-demand expert advice). With the current progress of tech and barring any catastrophic event, soon enough it will become trivial technologically speaking to meet all human needs on any location on earth at a very low cost.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
omneity 3y ago
Many african countries are extremely resource rich. They do have money, but also corruption sapping a lot of it away. That and I don’t think political instability is a fact of life. I like to think of it through Maslow’s pyramid of human needs. As the lower layers start to be satisfied, even the conduits for violent impulses change in nature (from physical fights to toxic gaming behavior let’s say). As Africa lifts itself and addresses the basic needs of its population, many of the challenges it is currently experiencing will start to fade away. It’s a bit of a chicken and egg problem but I also happen to be an optimist :)

TMWNN 3y ago

> Hot take. Europe cannot compete without working closer with african countries. Why hasn't this happened in 60 years of post-colonialism? From 1961 to 2015 <http://www.worldeconomics.com/papers/Global%20Growth%20Monitor_7c66ffca-ff86-4e4c-979d-7c5d7a22ef21.paper http://www.worldeconomics.com/papers/Global%20Growth%20Monit...>, real GDP per capita in Africa grew by 1.1% annually (!), compared to 3.9% for Asia, 1.7% for the Americas, and 2.2% for Europe. Growth from 2001 to 2010 of 2.9% is included in that figure; it was the first decade in that period in which Africa outgrew any other continent. GDP per capita in US 1990 dollars <http://www.worldeconomics.com/Data/MadisonHistoricalGDP/Madison%20Historical%20GDP%20Data.efp http://www.worldeconomics.com/Data/MadisonHistoricalGDP/Madi...> for several African countries: Country | 1980 | 2008 -------------|------|------ Algeria | 3152 | 3520 Botswana | 1765 | 4769 Cameroon | 1192 | 1212 Gabon | 6777 | 3811 Ivory Coast | 2041 | 1095 Kenya | 1051 | 1098 Liberia | 1162 | 802 Madagascar | 1054 | 730 Malawi | 630 | 744 Mauritius | 4367 | 14529 Niger | 810 | 514 Nigeria | 1305 | 1524 Seychelles | 4444 | 6109 South Africa | 4390 | 4793 Zimbabwe | 1295 | 779 For every Mauritius, Botswana, and Seychelles there is a Zimbabwe, Niger, and Ivory Coast. >wait until Mexico wakes up Mexico is, while poorer than the US or Canada or Western Europe, so, so, so much wealthier than anywhere in Africa (including South Africa and Zimbabwe/Rhodesia, both once with more or less first-world wealth) that there is no comparison.