8 ms·

Europe’s CEOs Eye Shift in Spending Plans Toward North America

28 points by chewz 3y ago

vandahm 3y ago
https://archive.is/tbcO6 https://archive.is/tbcO6
bleep_bloop 3y ago
I mean, Europe is dominated by US corporations. Every high street in Europe has multiples of US owned businesses so why shouldn't we return the favour. The US is still the worlds largest economy, this shouldn't really be a new idea.
roschdal 3y ago
[flagged]
- RC_ITR 3y ago
  This isn’t appropriate content for HN, but let us not forget the scars of colonialism came/come in many forms.
nmlpqa 3y ago
[flagged]
raverbashing 3y ago
> as the continent reels from geopolitical risks, inflation and energy costs, along with skills shortages and supply-chain disruptions. While energy costs probably weren't too affected on the US, it is funny that the business up always signed up on the plans for NS/NS2 and never looked one centimeter further into the geopolitical risk. Well, then Inflation and skills shortage are also an issue in the US, possibly even more (and remains to be seen if they can get the same skill with European salaries) But that being said, moving production to the US is a better choice than China.
WastingMyTime89 3y ago
That tends to happen when one country starts giving large free handouts to corporations, yes. It’s a shame that the EU is so spineless. Tariffs and severe commercial restrictions should have been de rigueur following the passing of the IRA.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Reminds me of Linde AG from Germany, the world's largest industrial gas manufacturer. It merged with US based Praxair in 2018 and then moved to Dublin. At this rate, every large company in Europe will move to Dublin.
  - blitzar 3y ago
    > At this rate, every large company in Europe will move to Dublin. And will still be in Europe ...
    - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
      We can't all live and work in Dublin though
      - blitzar 3y ago
        We can't all work for the world's largest <insert industry> either.
- jcarrano 3y ago
  So you are blaming the countries that have reasonable laws and taxes? It's literally the meme of the guy putting a stick in his own wheel.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Most of Europe's amazing social security benefits are funded by taxes, pot which is shrinking. To combat rising wealth inequality, we need to tax the super wealthy who have vacuumed most of the worker productivity gains of the last decades, but we can't because they exclusively go to the jurisdiction where they have "special deals" where they pay next to no taxes. Europe can't keep having amazing social benefits if it starts an internal race to the bottom of who can give the best tax breaks to billionaires, and then the tax burden moves on to the already shrinking middle class.
RobotToaster 3y ago
Without capital controls the EU is fairly toothless. Of course EU rules ban capital controls.
- candiodari 3y ago
  I wonder why an organisation once called "The European Coal and Steel community" would favor big business interests ... strange.
- LatteLazy 3y ago
  Every country to try currency controls in the modern world has just failed harder...
cpursley 3y ago
Alternative geopolitical and economic voices have been predicting this since the outbreak of the Ukrainian-Russia conflict. The reality is without cheap energy (nat gas, nuke power), European manufacturing just can’t compete with other industrial economies.
- thc-27182 3y ago
  Sounds like a win for N. America. A lose for Russia. Guess they probably shouldn't have started the war then.
  - nmlwr 3y ago
    Of course. That was the plan and one of the reasons why the U.S. did not back down on Ukraine NATO membership in 2021, with the anticipated result (article is from before the war and there are plenty of other sources): https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clinton-expansion https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clin... All that is left for the EU is to fight over some of Ukraine's mineral rights, competing with Blackrock etc.
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > Of course. That was the plan and one of the reasons why the U.S. did not back down on Ukraine NATO membership in 2021, with the anticipated result (article is from before the war and there are plenty of other sources): The war started in 2014, the full invasion only started in 2022, so this makes no sense whatsoever.
      - klrlr 3y ago
        The situation was exactly the same before 2014: https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-russia-cable-2014-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-russia-cable-2014-... Moreover, U.S. efforts to sabotage EU-Russia trades go back to the Soviet times.
        3y ago
omneity 3y ago
Hot take. Europe cannot compete without working closer with african countries. Same time zone, geographic proximity, many existing commercial relations, economic complementarity, logistics etc. This will allow this hypothetical Eurafrican block to become extremely competitive with East Asia giants (China & friends, India), and with NA (USA, Canada, wait until Mexico wakes up). I believe the balance of powers will change when the Nigeria-Morocco gas pipeline [0] opens up, connecting all coastal countries of West Africa (already working to a certain extent together as ECOWAS [1], with a unified currency [2], not without its warts of course) and significantly bringing down the price of energy in the region. [0]: https://www.gem.wiki/Nigeria-Morocco_Gas_Pipeline https://www.gem.wiki/Nigeria-Morocco_Gas_Pipeline [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Community_of_West_African_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Community_of_West_Afr... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFA_franc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFA_franc
- iloledthanks 3y ago
  [flagged]
- mathieuh 3y ago
  What would prevent this from becoming another round of colonialism?
  - omneity 3y ago
    No one said this comes without challenges, just like every great opportunity. But it can be handled with solid business acumen. Unlike the (bloody and disgusting) past, the african diaspora as well as the local actors have a much better education and understanding of various global dynamics, as well as (some) level of local infrastructure. China did manage to improve its side of the trade equation, not without sacrifices for sure. Arguably, it was also already a unified large nation and it just needed to "direct" its energy. In the case of Africa, we're talking about 54 countries, organized in 8 regional communities [0]. RECs are functional at different levels (some are completely dysfunctional such as the UMA - the North African community), and there's a lot of coordination work to do. But I believe working together towards a shared goal would do a massive uplifting job for the second continent in terms of land and population size and unlock an incredible future for the 1.3B africans today. [0]: https://au.int/en/recs https://au.int/en/recs
s1k3s 3y ago
How is a multi-national company (aka large enterprise) worried about "lack of competitiveness"? Isn't this what they all want? Or maybe they're complaining about the lack of startups that they can acquire?
firstSpeaker 3y ago
The article does not say anything about what sectors of industry these CEOs belong to, or what is the total capital of the businesses they represent in absolute and in % to total cap in the included industry sectors in their survey. So, all in all, the article says nothing substantial backed by any solid statistics and figures.
RandomLensman 3y ago
Why not go for a richer and more unified market? Europe seems to have settled a bit into a mindset of low growth and at least relative decline. GDP per head is already quite a bit apart between the EU and the US.
- touwer 3y ago
  GDP shouldn't be the only measure to look at https://www.wired.com/story/happiness-measurement/ https://www.wired.com/story/happiness-measurement/
  - RandomLensman 3y ago
    Perhaps but not sure how much that matters from the perspective of a corporation looking for more revenues.
touwer 3y ago
Well, it's Bloomberg reporting on Europe, so take it with a big grain of salt. No news either: CEO's wan even less taxes for their already rich companies and more freedom to make people work for a lower wage so their already rich shareholders get even richer. In short, the American Dream
0zemp2c 3y ago
on a long enough timeline, all cars will be manufactured in Mexico
jackhack 3y ago
It's important to note that "North America" != "United States." It likely means a shift to production in low-cost Mexico, Costa Rica, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, etc. I'm in the USA. I've seen this subtle dishonesty in packaging "Made in North America" which most consumers equate with "made in Canada or USA". The joke's on us.

28 points by chewz 3y ago

https://archive.is/tbcO6 https://archive.is/tbcO6

I mean, Europe is dominated by US corporations. Every high street in Europe has multiples of US owned businesses so why shouldn't we return the favour. The US is still the worlds largest economy, this shouldn't really be a new idea.

roschdal 3y ago

[flagged]

RC_ITR 3y ago
This isn’t appropriate content for HN, but let us not forget the scars of colonialism came/come in many forms.

nmlpqa 3y ago

[flagged]

raverbashing 3y ago

> as the continent reels from geopolitical risks, inflation and energy costs, along with skills shortages and supply-chain disruptions. While energy costs probably weren't too affected on the US, it is funny that the business up always signed up on the plans for NS/NS2 and never looked one centimeter further into the geopolitical risk. Well, then Inflation and skills shortage are also an issue in the US, possibly even more (and remains to be seen if they can get the same skill with European salaries) But that being said, moving production to the US is a better choice than China.

WastingMyTime89 3y ago

That tends to happen when one country starts giving large free handouts to corporations, yes. It’s a shame that the EU is so spineless. Tariffs and severe commercial restrictions should have been de rigueur following the passing of the IRA.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Reminds me of Linde AG from Germany, the world's largest industrial gas manufacturer. It merged with US based Praxair in 2018 and then moved to Dublin. At this rate, every large company in Europe will move to Dublin.
- blitzar 3y ago
  > At this rate, every large company in Europe will move to Dublin. And will still be in Europe ...
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    We can't all live and work in Dublin though
    - blitzar 3y ago
      We can't all work for the world's largest <insert industry> either.
jcarrano 3y ago
So you are blaming the countries that have reasonable laws and taxes? It's literally the meme of the guy putting a stick in his own wheel.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Most of Europe's amazing social security benefits are funded by taxes, pot which is shrinking. To combat rising wealth inequality, we need to tax the super wealthy who have vacuumed most of the worker productivity gains of the last decades, but we can't because they exclusively go to the jurisdiction where they have "special deals" where they pay next to no taxes. Europe can't keep having amazing social benefits if it starts an internal race to the bottom of who can give the best tax breaks to billionaires, and then the tax burden moves on to the already shrinking middle class.

RobotToaster 3y ago

Without capital controls the EU is fairly toothless. Of course EU rules ban capital controls.

candiodari 3y ago
I wonder why an organisation once called "The European Coal and Steel community" would favor big business interests ... strange.
LatteLazy 3y ago
Every country to try currency controls in the modern world has just failed harder...

cpursley 3y ago

Alternative geopolitical and economic voices have been predicting this since the outbreak of the Ukrainian-Russia conflict. The reality is without cheap energy (nat gas, nuke power), European manufacturing just can’t compete with other industrial economies.

thc-27182 3y ago
Sounds like a win for N. America. A lose for Russia. Guess they probably shouldn't have started the war then.
- nmlwr 3y ago
  Of course. That was the plan and one of the reasons why the U.S. did not back down on Ukraine NATO membership in 2021, with the anticipated result (article is from before the war and there are plenty of other sources): https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clinton-expansion https://www.vox.com/22900113/nato-ukraine-russia-crisis-clin... All that is left for the EU is to fight over some of Ukraine's mineral rights, competing with Blackrock etc.
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > Of course. That was the plan and one of the reasons why the U.S. did not back down on Ukraine NATO membership in 2021, with the anticipated result (article is from before the war and there are plenty of other sources): The war started in 2014, the full invasion only started in 2022, so this makes no sense whatsoever.
    - klrlr 3y ago
      The situation was exactly the same before 2014: https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-russia-cable-2014-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-russia-cable-2014-... Moreover, U.S. efforts to sabotage EU-Russia trades go back to the Soviet times.
      - 3y ago

omneity 3y ago

Hot take. Europe cannot compete without working closer with african countries. Same time zone, geographic proximity, many existing commercial relations, economic complementarity, logistics etc. This will allow this hypothetical Eurafrican block to become extremely competitive with East Asia giants (China & friends, India), and with NA (USA, Canada, wait until Mexico wakes up). I believe the balance of powers will change when the Nigeria-Morocco gas pipeline [0] opens up, connecting all coastal countries of West Africa (already working to a certain extent together as ECOWAS [1], with a unified currency [2], not without its warts of course) and significantly bringing down the price of energy in the region. [0]: https://www.gem.wiki/Nigeria-Morocco_Gas_Pipeline https://www.gem.wiki/Nigeria-Morocco_Gas_Pipeline [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Community_of_West_African_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Community_of_West_Afr... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFA_franc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFA_franc

iloledthanks 3y ago
[flagged]
mathieuh 3y ago
What would prevent this from becoming another round of colonialism?
- omneity 3y ago
  No one said this comes without challenges, just like every great opportunity. But it can be handled with solid business acumen. Unlike the (bloody and disgusting) past, the african diaspora as well as the local actors have a much better education and understanding of various global dynamics, as well as (some) level of local infrastructure. China did manage to improve its side of the trade equation, not without sacrifices for sure. Arguably, it was also already a unified large nation and it just needed to "direct" its energy. In the case of Africa, we're talking about 54 countries, organized in 8 regional communities [0]. RECs are functional at different levels (some are completely dysfunctional such as the UMA - the North African community), and there's a lot of coordination work to do. But I believe working together towards a shared goal would do a massive uplifting job for the second continent in terms of land and population size and unlock an incredible future for the 1.3B africans today. [0]: https://au.int/en/recs https://au.int/en/recs

s1k3s 3y ago

How is a multi-national company (aka large enterprise) worried about "lack of competitiveness"? Isn't this what they all want? Or maybe they're complaining about the lack of startups that they can acquire?

firstSpeaker 3y ago

The article does not say anything about what sectors of industry these CEOs belong to, or what is the total capital of the businesses they represent in absolute and in % to total cap in the included industry sectors in their survey. So, all in all, the article says nothing substantial backed by any solid statistics and figures.

RandomLensman 3y ago

Why not go for a richer and more unified market? Europe seems to have settled a bit into a mindset of low growth and at least relative decline. GDP per head is already quite a bit apart between the EU and the US.

touwer 3y ago
GDP shouldn't be the only measure to look at https://www.wired.com/story/happiness-measurement/ https://www.wired.com/story/happiness-measurement/
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  Perhaps but not sure how much that matters from the perspective of a corporation looking for more revenues.

touwer 3y ago

Well, it's Bloomberg reporting on Europe, so take it with a big grain of salt. No news either: CEO's wan even less taxes for their already rich companies and more freedom to make people work for a lower wage so their already rich shareholders get even richer. In short, the American Dream

0zemp2c 3y ago

on a long enough timeline, all cars will be manufactured in Mexico

jackhack 3y ago

It's important to note that "North America" != "United States." It likely means a shift to production in low-cost Mexico, Costa Rica, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, etc. I'm in the USA. I've seen this subtle dishonesty in packaging "Made in North America" which most consumers equate with "made in Canada or USA". The joke's on us.