6 ms·

They may just be chat bubbles, but they’re our chat bubbles

149 points by kacy 15y ago

ashamedlion 15y ago
It's a pretty generic logo, so I highly doubt Apple copied this design. I'll cross post what I wrote on their blog: "Perhaps you can take this opportunity to make the icon more refined. Apple's icon is how good the HipChat icon could have looked (and don't get me wrong, I love HipChat). Maybe that same amount of polish could go in to the new icon?" Alternatively, they could go for something more radically different. This actually seems like a nice opportunity.
ekanes 15y ago
Given all the scenarios, HipChat chose the right option and will hopefully capitalize on some buzz. Very classy response guys.
- myoder 15y ago
  Yeah, huffing and puffing about this would get them some short-term buzz. This move, in my mind, earns them long-term respect. Move on, and focus on the product—not the logo. Love it.
  - nstott 15y ago
    Agreed, classy response here. I enjoy it more when people that avoid the drama
    - annon 15y ago
      Wouldn't 'avoiding the drama' be not making a post about this at all?
      - dangrossman 15y ago
        What company that maintains a company blog wouldn't make a post when they do something as significant as change their logo? It's their own blog, not a press release.
kmfrk 15y ago
I think the right title is "HipChat comments on non-existent controversy in clever move to get attention".
- djbender 15y ago
  Where was the part where they created controversy? They stated that several of their users noticed the similarity. Article just states that it could create confusion for users, nothing more. Do I think they copied us? Probably not (but as a designer, I’ll take the compliment).
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - ThomPete 15y ago
    That's the controversy. I can just see how lesser knowledgeable journalist will get this wrong.
    - dangrossman 15y ago
      It's not a press release, it's a blog post, on the company's blog, about why that company is changing its logo. It's not written for journalists in the first place.
  - kmfrk 15y ago
    "I am not saying the man is beating his wife, but (...)" is to perpetuate the idea instead of just plainly saying "I don't think they copied us". It reads like something out of an antagonistic lawyer from a procedural TV show. We need a Spock take on this. My comment was a response to the original title of the submission, which read something along the lines of "HipChat comment on Apple logo plagiarism rumours" or something to that effect more so than the post itself.
- sukuriant 15y ago
  In another post in HN comments, he stated that their users were confused about the two different icons. That seems to be more the reason that they are changing their icons.
tuhin 15y ago
To be honest, when you start designing generic icons like Messages/chat, things start to get pretty hazy. But I like how Hipchat is taking this as a chance to create a better icon. Also to play devil's advocate, the blue is the an evolution of the Hipchat blue, and the stripes an addition from the Messages/iMessages icons on iOS. iChat icon: http://ituh.in/dW6U http://ituh.in/dW6U Android Messages (ICS) http://ituh.in/vBy8 http://ituh.in/vBy8
- alanfalcon 15y ago
  That's the problem with the Hipchat logo to begin with, it's rather generic. No big deal, the world keeps turning.
Anechoic 15y ago
OTOH, the HipChap loco is awfully close to Apple's original iChat icon: http://www.google.com/search?q=ichat+icon&num=20&hl=en&&rls=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=xZI-T4rKEeXl0QGm_-XvBw&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1156&bih=932 http://www.google.com/search?q=ichat+icon&num=20&hl=... In fact, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of diversity when it comes to chat icons in general: http://www.google.com/search?q=chat%20icon&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=z5I-T8H5NufV0QHokrXsBw&biw=1156&bih=932&sei=05I-T_OuFcbs0gHAv6jgBw http://www.google.com/search?q=chat%20icon&oe=UTF-8&... I really don't think there's a controversy here.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- kisielk 15y ago
  In fact to me it looks like the new Messages logo is derived from the old iChat logo with some of the skew removed and another bubble added. Nothing to see here...
- byproxy 15y ago
  Both are very close to webOS' "Messaging" application, which I think precede them. As you say, though, it is a generic idea.
  - Anechoic 15y ago
    which I think precede them ? iChat came out in 2002.
    - rajbot 15y ago
      And iChat's use of the speech bubbles for IM dates back to 1997: http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/03/the-origin-of-the-ichat-ui/ http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/03/the-origin-of-the-ichat-ui... A very novel UI at the time.. here is a cached version of the broken pic: http://6.media.tumblr.com/MitMvSO0c6w81bbgrsKunjNE_500.png http://6.media.tumblr.com/MitMvSO0c6w81bbgrsKunjNE_500.png
ken 15y ago
#2 is kind of depressing: it doesn't even matter if we are in the right, because they have more money. Now, I don't know if trademarks need to be registered, and I'm not taking a position on whether this is valid or not -- but note that they specifically aren't saying anything like "we didn't register the trademark so it was fair game, oops". They're saying it doesn't matter. Is this actually how it would have played out? What's the point of having legal protections if the big guy can always squash the little guy anyway?
- anigbrowl 15y ago
  No. If they had registered it and it was sufficiently distinctive/original (questionable here, but that's beside the point), then they would have a relatively straightforward case. Big firms settle cases like this all the time.
mikeklaas 15y ago
Unrelatedly, here at Zite we use HipChat and it's pretty awesome, especially since we have offices in two countries. Obviously, any kind of IM will "work" as a collaboration tool, but having a polished experience really matters. The persistence is key (start up hipchat and it'll show the conversation before you joined). Also, tons of little touches like being able to copy&paste images from your clipboard directly into chat.
mark_l_watson 15y ago
I noticed that also. A customer asked me to install HipChat yesterday morning and later in the day I installed Mountain Lion. The icons ended up close together on my dock, and I did a double take this morning.
xbryanx 15y ago
And they're all riffing off a pretty old generalized concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_balloon#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_balloon#History Reminds me of the silly 'cloud' uniqueness debates: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ThereIsOnlyOneCloudIconInTheEntireUniverse.aspx http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ThereIsOnlyOneCloudIconInTheEn...
Void_ 15y ago
Hey Apple used similar icon, let's write a blog post about it and enjoy the 5 minutes of glory!
dreamdu5t 15y ago
It actually looks like HipChat's logo is a ripoff of Apple's iChat icon, with many Apple icons looking like a ripoff of Henry Dreyfus' icons.
phillryu 15y ago
I find this blog post ridiculous, considering HipChat includes emoticons ripped straight from iChat. Pot meet Kettle. Surprised nobody's noticed or mentioned this yet.
joejohnson 15y ago
From the comments: Perhaps you should also show Apple's original iChat logo, which you simply reused as your own (with the same shape and color) after changing the direction of the "gloss" sheen and shadowing it with a flipped, black and white version. You ripped off iChat's logo. Apple did not sue you. You did not create something original and protected. Apple's "new" Messages icon has less similarity with yours than yours had with iChat. Apple's refreshed iChat logo also conveys some functional meaning, with its ellipsis. Insinuating that Apple owes you something for your slightly derivative version of its iChat logo is ridiculous. You would have sounded far more legitimate (and would probably have gotten more attention for your product) if you'd instead thanked Apple for inspiration for the icon of your next Mtn Lion release (a flatter, glowing but less glossy icon), and then talked about what your product does that is novel or interesting.

149 points by kacy 15y ago

It's a pretty generic logo, so I highly doubt Apple copied this design. I'll cross post what I wrote on their blog: "Perhaps you can take this opportunity to make the icon more refined. Apple's icon is how good the HipChat icon could have looked (and don't get me wrong, I love HipChat). Maybe that same amount of polish could go in to the new icon?" Alternatively, they could go for something more radically different. This actually seems like a nice opportunity.

ekanes 15y ago

Given all the scenarios, HipChat chose the right option and will hopefully capitalize on some buzz. Very classy response guys.

myoder 15y ago
Yeah, huffing and puffing about this would get them some short-term buzz. This move, in my mind, earns them long-term respect. Move on, and focus on the product—not the logo. Love it.
- nstott 15y ago
  Agreed, classy response here. I enjoy it more when people that avoid the drama
  - annon 15y ago
    Wouldn't 'avoiding the drama' be not making a post about this at all?
    - dangrossman 15y ago
      What company that maintains a company blog wouldn't make a post when they do something as significant as change their logo? It's their own blog, not a press release.

kmfrk 15y ago

I think the right title is "HipChat comments on non-existent controversy in clever move to get attention".

djbender 15y ago
Where was the part where they created controversy? They stated that several of their users noticed the similarity. Article just states that it could create confusion for users, nothing more. Do I think they copied us? Probably not (but as a designer, I’ll take the compliment).
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- ThomPete 15y ago
  That's the controversy. I can just see how lesser knowledgeable journalist will get this wrong.
  - dangrossman 15y ago
    It's not a press release, it's a blog post, on the company's blog, about why that company is changing its logo. It's not written for journalists in the first place.
- kmfrk 15y ago
  "I am not saying the man is beating his wife, but (...)" is to perpetuate the idea instead of just plainly saying "I don't think they copied us". It reads like something out of an antagonistic lawyer from a procedural TV show. We need a Spock take on this. My comment was a response to the original title of the submission, which read something along the lines of "HipChat comment on Apple logo plagiarism rumours" or something to that effect more so than the post itself.
sukuriant 15y ago
In another post in HN comments, he stated that their users were confused about the two different icons. That seems to be more the reason that they are changing their icons.

tuhin 15y ago

To be honest, when you start designing generic icons like Messages/chat, things start to get pretty hazy. But I like how Hipchat is taking this as a chance to create a better icon. Also to play devil's advocate, the blue is the an evolution of the Hipchat blue, and the stripes an addition from the Messages/iMessages icons on iOS. iChat icon: http://ituh.in/dW6U http://ituh.in/dW6U Android Messages (ICS) http://ituh.in/vBy8 http://ituh.in/vBy8

alanfalcon 15y ago
That's the problem with the Hipchat logo to begin with, it's rather generic. No big deal, the world keeps turning.

Anechoic 15y ago

OTOH, the HipChap loco is awfully close to Apple's original iChat icon: http://www.google.com/search?q=ichat+icon&num=20&hl=en&&rls=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=xZI-T4rKEeXl0QGm_-XvBw&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1156&bih=932 http://www.google.com/search?q=ichat+icon&num=20&hl=... In fact, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of diversity when it comes to chat icons in general: http://www.google.com/search?q=chat%20icon&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=z5I-T8H5NufV0QHokrXsBw&biw=1156&bih=932&sei=05I-T_OuFcbs0gHAv6jgBw http://www.google.com/search?q=chat%20icon&oe=UTF-8&... I really don't think there's a controversy here.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
kisielk 15y ago
In fact to me it looks like the new Messages logo is derived from the old iChat logo with some of the skew removed and another bubble added. Nothing to see here...
byproxy 15y ago
Both are very close to webOS' "Messaging" application, which I think precede them. As you say, though, it is a generic idea.
- Anechoic 15y ago
  which I think precede them ? iChat came out in 2002.
  - rajbot 15y ago
    And iChat's use of the speech bubbles for IM dates back to 1997: http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/03/the-origin-of-the-ichat-ui/ http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/03/the-origin-of-the-ichat-ui... A very novel UI at the time.. here is a cached version of the broken pic: http://6.media.tumblr.com/MitMvSO0c6w81bbgrsKunjNE_500.png http://6.media.tumblr.com/MitMvSO0c6w81bbgrsKunjNE_500.png

ken 15y ago

#2 is kind of depressing: it doesn't even matter if we are in the right, because they have more money. Now, I don't know if trademarks need to be registered, and I'm not taking a position on whether this is valid or not -- but note that they specifically aren't saying anything like "we didn't register the trademark so it was fair game, oops". They're saying it doesn't matter. Is this actually how it would have played out? What's the point of having legal protections if the big guy can always squash the little guy anyway?

anigbrowl 15y ago
No. If they had registered it and it was sufficiently distinctive/original (questionable here, but that's beside the point), then they would have a relatively straightforward case. Big firms settle cases like this all the time.

mikeklaas 15y ago

Unrelatedly, here at Zite we use HipChat and it's pretty awesome, especially since we have offices in two countries. Obviously, any kind of IM will "work" as a collaboration tool, but having a polished experience really matters. The persistence is key (start up hipchat and it'll show the conversation before you joined). Also, tons of little touches like being able to copy&paste images from your clipboard directly into chat.

mark_l_watson 15y ago

I noticed that also. A customer asked me to install HipChat yesterday morning and later in the day I installed Mountain Lion. The icons ended up close together on my dock, and I did a double take this morning.

xbryanx 15y ago

And they're all riffing off a pretty old generalized concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_balloon#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_balloon#History Reminds me of the silly 'cloud' uniqueness debates: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ThereIsOnlyOneCloudIconInTheEntireUniverse.aspx http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ThereIsOnlyOneCloudIconInTheEn...

Void_ 15y ago

Hey Apple used similar icon, let's write a blog post about it and enjoy the 5 minutes of glory!

dreamdu5t 15y ago

It actually looks like HipChat's logo is a ripoff of Apple's iChat icon, with many Apple icons looking like a ripoff of Henry Dreyfus' icons.

phillryu 15y ago

I find this blog post ridiculous, considering HipChat includes emoticons ripped straight from iChat. Pot meet Kettle. Surprised nobody's noticed or mentioned this yet.

joejohnson 15y ago

From the comments: Perhaps you should also show Apple's original iChat logo, which you simply reused as your own (with the same shape and color) after changing the direction of the "gloss" sheen and shadowing it with a flipped, black and white version. You ripped off iChat's logo. Apple did not sue you. You did not create something original and protected. Apple's "new" Messages icon has less similarity with yours than yours had with iChat. Apple's refreshed iChat logo also conveys some functional meaning, with its ellipsis. Insinuating that Apple owes you something for your slightly derivative version of its iChat logo is ridiculous. You would have sounded far more legitimate (and would probably have gotten more attention for your product) if you'd instead thanked Apple for inspiration for the icon of your next Mtn Lion release (a flatter, glowing but less glossy icon), and then talked about what your product does that is novel or interesting.