7 ms·

And it's clearly attempted to make any mention of gay or trans people existing or being in any way normal "not age appropriate". The sponsor of Florida's law ga

by detaro 3y ago

And it's clearly attempted to make any mention of gay or trans people existing or being in any way normal "not age appropriate". The sponsor of Florida's law gave pure mention of a child having two dads as an example of what should be prevented in schools.

firstlink 3y ago
[flagged]
- ok_dad 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - firstlink 3y ago
    > there is no book for children that talks about oral sex that is was in any place where a kid could read it Yes there was, and your conviction that this must be an exaggeration shows just how completely out of touch the mainstream media-following public is from the reality of the situation. Just as a single example, the children's illustrated sex instruction manual "This Book is Gay" has had its relevant contents republished all over the internet, so that one would practically have to have been specifically avoiding seeing it. It is using LGBTQ as a shield for pedophilia and as an LGBTQ person that makes me sick. The very title gleefully declares this intent: "This Book is Gay" and therefore if you object you must be a homophobe, and not, you know, someone who thinks that maybe children shouldn't be having sex unless and until they are old enough to work it out for themselves. ETA: I almost forgot that even Snopes had to admit about the contents of this particular book: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/. In fact snopes reports it's even worse than what I said; it provides instructions on how to obtain access to hookup apps. To kids. Hookup apps. Kids. It's sick.
    - ok_dad 3y ago
      > To kids. Hookup apps. Kids. It's sick. Well, I read the snopes article and the book seems edgy but reasonable. Why is it sick? Is it wrong to teach middle school kids about sex before they might have it in high school? Anyways, I said I wasn't going to respond here anymore, so I won't, but I guess your morals and mine aren't a matching pair. I don't see how sex ed harms middle school kids. If anything, it helps them not be a dufus and get preggo when they have sex the first time. Lots of movies that middle schoolers watch show people meeting each other in different situatiosn and then dating, which isn't any different from a "hookup app", which aren't used for as much sex hookups as you folks seem to think, it's where people today meet each other to date. Sex isn't sick, it's how humans make babies and become closer as couples and sometimes how they have fun.
      - firstlink 3y ago
        [flagged]
        ok_dad 3y ago
        [flagged]
        firstlink 3y ago
        "No one is teaching kids how to have oral sex, but if they are then they are not teaching them how to hook up, but if they are then they're only teaching them to hook up with each other and not adults, but if they are then actually it's just helping them make an informed choice (about safe ways to hook up with adults, while in middle school)!" You have an answer for everything, don't you? Funny how all of your answers are aimed toward promoting pedophilia.
        dang 3y ago
        Please don't do this sort of flamewar (or any flamewar on HN), and please don't do tit-for-tat spats. They're not what this site is for and destroy what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > we are talking about books informing pre-pubescent children which parts A go into which parts B On what planet is a kid seeking out this information learning about it for the first time in the school library?
  - firstlink 3y ago
    On a planet where the book is being offered to/pushed on young children. That is literally what people are objecting to.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > where the book is being offered to/pushed on young children Huge difference between saying teachers shouldn't distribute the book and it should be removed from the school library. Libraries don't push books by virtue of having them on their shelves. And again, when you look at the populations getting uppity about this, it's the ones with high rates of teenage pregnancy and STI transmission. Which makes sense. If Suzy only sees pictures and videos online, or has acts described to her by equally-clueless friends, she's less capable of making informed decisions than someone who also saw the terminology and context in a book. (She's also been informed the topic is taboo.)
      - firstlink 3y ago
        Can you explain in detail how Grindr is an important part of Suzy's safe sex education? Reminder that Suzy is 11 years old, not a teenager. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Can you explain in detail how Grindr is an important part of Suzy's safe sex education Not particularly, but it's a moot question. It's not part of her sex ed. It's on a book shelf. We don't ask why The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe is an important part of Suzy's anything when we concur with it being available. Same here. Turning the question around, what's the harm in Suzy going into a library, picking up this book and learning Grindr exists? (Again, in a hypothetical universe where this sequence of actions occurs without her knowing of it already.) > Reminder that Suzy is 11 years old, not a teenager "The average age of first exposure" to online porn is 12 [1]. Even if Suzy's parents practice perfect digital hygiene, unless they're raising her as a houseplant, she's going to be exposed to this at a younger age than we were. The choice is whether she gets exposed within a context of information, understanding and comfort, or if she's thrown into the fray in a state of ignorance. [1] https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/education/2023-05-14/sex-intercourse-neither-teens-weigh-evolving-definitions-habits https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/education/2023-05-14/sex-inter...
- detaro 3y ago
  "discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity" (direct quote from the law in question) is not "instruction on how to have sex", however often people claim it is. If that was what the law was banning, I'd be a lot less concerned about it, but it just isn't.

by detaro 3y ago

firstlink 3y ago

[flagged]

ok_dad 3y ago
[flagged]
- firstlink 3y ago
  > there is no book for children that talks about oral sex that is was in any place where a kid could read it Yes there was, and your conviction that this must be an exaggeration shows just how completely out of touch the mainstream media-following public is from the reality of the situation. Just as a single example, the children's illustrated sex instruction manual "This Book is Gay" has had its relevant contents republished all over the internet, so that one would practically have to have been specifically avoiding seeing it. It is using LGBTQ as a shield for pedophilia and as an LGBTQ person that makes me sick. The very title gleefully declares this intent: "This Book is Gay" and therefore if you object you must be a homophobe, and not, you know, someone who thinks that maybe children shouldn't be having sex unless and until they are old enough to work it out for themselves. ETA: I almost forgot that even Snopes had to admit about the contents of this particular book: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/. In fact snopes reports it's even worse than what I said; it provides instructions on how to obtain access to hookup apps. To kids. Hookup apps. Kids. It's sick.
  - ok_dad 3y ago
    > To kids. Hookup apps. Kids. It's sick. Well, I read the snopes article and the book seems edgy but reasonable. Why is it sick? Is it wrong to teach middle school kids about sex before they might have it in high school? Anyways, I said I wasn't going to respond here anymore, so I won't, but I guess your morals and mine aren't a matching pair. I don't see how sex ed harms middle school kids. If anything, it helps them not be a dufus and get preggo when they have sex the first time. Lots of movies that middle schoolers watch show people meeting each other in different situatiosn and then dating, which isn't any different from a "hookup app", which aren't used for as much sex hookups as you folks seem to think, it's where people today meet each other to date. Sex isn't sick, it's how humans make babies and become closer as couples and sometimes how they have fun.
    - firstlink 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - ok_dad 3y ago
        [flagged]
        firstlink 3y ago
        "No one is teaching kids how to have oral sex, but if they are then they are not teaching them how to hook up, but if they are then they're only teaching them to hook up with each other and not adults, but if they are then actually it's just helping them make an informed choice (about safe ways to hook up with adults, while in middle school)!" You have an answer for everything, don't you? Funny how all of your answers are aimed toward promoting pedophilia.
        dang 3y ago
        Please don't do this sort of flamewar (or any flamewar on HN), and please don't do tit-for-tat spats. They're not what this site is for and destroy what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> we are talking about books informing pre-pubescent children which parts A go into which parts B On what planet is a kid seeking out this information learning about it for the first time in the school library?
- firstlink 3y ago
  On a planet where the book is being offered to/pushed on young children. That is literally what people are objecting to.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > where the book is being offered to/pushed on young children Huge difference between saying teachers shouldn't distribute the book and it should be removed from the school library. Libraries don't push books by virtue of having them on their shelves. And again, when you look at the populations getting uppity about this, it's the ones with high rates of teenage pregnancy and STI transmission. Which makes sense. If Suzy only sees pictures and videos online, or has acts described to her by equally-clueless friends, she's less capable of making informed decisions than someone who also saw the terminology and context in a book. (She's also been informed the topic is taboo.)
    - firstlink 3y ago
      Can you explain in detail how Grindr is an important part of Suzy's safe sex education? Reminder that Suzy is 11 years old, not a teenager. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tampa-school-sex-book/
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Can you explain in detail how Grindr is an important part of Suzy's safe sex education Not particularly, but it's a moot question. It's not part of her sex ed. It's on a book shelf. We don't ask why The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe is an important part of Suzy's anything when we concur with it being available. Same here. Turning the question around, what's the harm in Suzy going into a library, picking up this book and learning Grindr exists? (Again, in a hypothetical universe where this sequence of actions occurs without her knowing of it already.) > Reminder that Suzy is 11 years old, not a teenager "The average age of first exposure" to online porn is 12 [1]. Even if Suzy's parents practice perfect digital hygiene, unless they're raising her as a houseplant, she's going to be exposed to this at a younger age than we were. The choice is whether she gets exposed within a context of information, understanding and comfort, or if she's thrown into the fray in a state of ignorance. [1] https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/education/2023-05-14/sex-intercourse-neither-teens-weigh-evolving-definitions-habits https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/education/2023-05-14/sex-inter...
detaro 3y ago
"discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity" (direct quote from the law in question) is not "instruction on how to have sex", however often people claim it is. If that was what the law was banning, I'd be a lot less concerned about it, but it just isn't.