4 ms·

My response to this post is, what on earth for? While you can use LaTeX for a ridiculous number of things [1][2][3], LaTeX is primarily a tool for typesetting t

by eykanal 15y ago

My response to this post is, what on earth for? While you can use LaTeX for a ridiculous number of things [1][2][3], LaTeX is primarily a tool for typesetting technical documents. Note that word "technical" in there; why would a non-technical person want that? It's complex; you have to type ridiculous things like "\textbf" to get bold text, and "\begin{enumerate}" to make a simple list. It's complicated; you have to look up what header argument to make to simply change the margins. It's also difficult to debug; try to explain to a non-technical user what this means: ("C:\Program Files\MiKTeX 2.9\tex\context\base\supp-pdf.mkii" [Loading MPS to PDF converter (version 2006.09.02).] ) ! Undefined control sequence. l.66 Your text goes here. \agweagsd The whole idea doesn't make sense to me. Let them use Word or whatever, it'll save both you and them a lot of headache in the long run. [1] Crossword puzzles: http://www.tex.ac.uk/CTAN/macros/latex/contrib/gene/crossword/cwpuzzle.pdf http://www.tex.ac.uk/CTAN/macros/latex/contrib/gene/crosswor... [2] Music: http://www.mab.jpn.org/musictex/mtex_lib_e.html http://www.mab.jpn.org/musictex/mtex_lib_e.html [3] Animations: http://pages.uoregon.edu/noeckel/PDFmovie.html http://pages.uoregon.edu/noeckel/PDFmovie.html

jmmcd 15y ago
Even for non-technical documents, I would still choose Latex for its advantages in areas like references and index, amenability to line-oriented version control, and the quality of the typesetting. I agree that non-technical users might make a different choice and that Latex error messages are dreadful.
- rmk2 15y ago
  I wholeheartedly agree with you. I use LaTeX exclusively (with Emacs as editor) for non-technical documents (I study languages), and for me, the most relevant advantages are tightly integrated bibliography and citation management, index and shorthand capabilities and the chance of "line-oriented version control", i.e. LaTeX in git. And the thing for introducing beginners, help them set up a preamble with the packages they will need. My experience with LaTeX has been that no matter how long you have been using it, there will always be something you will have to alter or look up. But a basic setup is not hard to deduct and by picking the packages relevant to you, you keep your files lean and get to understand what each part does. If you then have other problems you can dive into weird code snippets that only make sense since someone published them saying "Ermh...look...it's complicated...but...works, so copy & paste & be happy". Once you've set up a basic preamble, people can actually concentrate on the content, and if they have problems, let them write their content first, the beauty of LaTeX is that all formatting woes can be addressed after the content is done.
jen_h 15y ago
Journal editors who accept LaTeX source from authors, desktop publishers/layout specialists who may know their field of expertise and are familiar with Word/DTP software, but not LaTeX syntax - it's more efficient to quickly fix a small item on-site and request the author's OK than ship the source back, have them fix it, take another look, send it back again, etc. Sometimes, you find an issue in the nth hour before publishing, so the ability to make a small change and get an assent makes or breaks getting that article into the run. Making scientific authors who include a lot of equations in their work use Word because the journal can't handle dealing with LaTeX is just cruel. :)
Wilduck 15y ago
I agree that the error messages are dreadful, but I've found a pretty simple pedagogical approach to make them less terrifying for a new learner. The key is that you reinforce a habit of frequently hitting the "typeset" button that way, when something goes wrong, they know to look at the commands that they just typed. If you combine that habit with an explanation of the more common errors (like forgetting an "end" tag, or using improper nesting), then the error messages become a lot less scary. The learner, at least initially, doesn't have to try to understand what the message means, just how to deal with it.
timwiseman 15y ago
I regretfully have to agree. When I was pursuing a masters in math, I used latex all the time, and I loved it. When I write anything about math or computer science, I prefer Latex to any other tool I tried. I got to a point I could type in Latex faster than I could hand write the equations. But then I switched to law school, which required the use of MS Word. I found Word quite amenable to writing nontechnical documents, and it was much easier to explain how to make a table of contents in Word to my non-technical classmates than it would have been to explain Latex. I love Latex within its field, but I do not see the point of evangelizing it to non-technical users.

by eykanal 15y ago

jmmcd 15y ago

Even for non-technical documents, I would still choose Latex for its advantages in areas like references and index, amenability to line-oriented version control, and the quality of the typesetting. I agree that non-technical users might make a different choice and that Latex error messages are dreadful.

rmk2 15y ago
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I use LaTeX exclusively (with Emacs as editor) for non-technical documents (I study languages), and for me, the most relevant advantages are tightly integrated bibliography and citation management, index and shorthand capabilities and the chance of "line-oriented version control", i.e. LaTeX in git. And the thing for introducing beginners, help them set up a preamble with the packages they will need. My experience with LaTeX has been that no matter how long you have been using it, there will always be something you will have to alter or look up. But a basic setup is not hard to deduct and by picking the packages relevant to you, you keep your files lean and get to understand what each part does. If you then have other problems you can dive into weird code snippets that only make sense since someone published them saying "Ermh...look...it's complicated...but...works, so copy & paste & be happy". Once you've set up a basic preamble, people can actually concentrate on the content, and if they have problems, let them write their content first, the beauty of LaTeX is that all formatting woes can be addressed after the content is done.

jen_h 15y ago

Journal editors who accept LaTeX source from authors, desktop publishers/layout specialists who may know their field of expertise and are familiar with Word/DTP software, but not LaTeX syntax - it's more efficient to quickly fix a small item on-site and request the author's OK than ship the source back, have them fix it, take another look, send it back again, etc. Sometimes, you find an issue in the nth hour before publishing, so the ability to make a small change and get an assent makes or breaks getting that article into the run. Making scientific authors who include a lot of equations in their work use Word because the journal can't handle dealing with LaTeX is just cruel. :)

Wilduck 15y ago

I agree that the error messages are dreadful, but I've found a pretty simple pedagogical approach to make them less terrifying for a new learner. The key is that you reinforce a habit of frequently hitting the "typeset" button that way, when something goes wrong, they know to look at the commands that they just typed. If you combine that habit with an explanation of the more common errors (like forgetting an "end" tag, or using improper nesting), then the error messages become a lot less scary. The learner, at least initially, doesn't have to try to understand what the message means, just how to deal with it.

timwiseman 15y ago

I regretfully have to agree. When I was pursuing a masters in math, I used latex all the time, and I loved it. When I write anything about math or computer science, I prefer Latex to any other tool I tried. I got to a point I could type in Latex faster than I could hand write the equations. But then I switched to law school, which required the use of MS Word. I found Word quite amenable to writing nontechnical documents, and it was much easier to explain how to make a table of contents in Word to my non-technical classmates than it would have been to explain Latex. I love Latex within its field, but I do not see the point of evangelizing it to non-technical users.