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Really depends on if the cost increase is due to Apple taking a cut. Restaurants usually charges more on these delivery apps anyways due to higher fees. It is u

Really depends on if the cost increase is due to Apple taking a cut. Restaurants usually charges more on these delivery apps anyways due to higher fees. It is usually cheaper to call your order into the restaurant and pick up than it is ordering via these app. Delivery apps are an interesting industry because it seems that no one is making money. Delivery apps are not profitable, delivery people are complaining they are not making enough, restaurants are complaining that they dont make enough via the apps, and customers are complaining of higher costs. The industry doesn't seem sustainable yet it keeps going

justizin 3y ago
> Really depends on if the cost increase is due to Apple taking a cut. Apple only takes a cut of virtual goods. This is why you cannot buy Kindle books on iOS without going to the website, but you can buy a television.
SllX 3y ago
Somebody’s salary is getting paid, a demand is being supplied and while they may not be making enough, there’s enough money to be made to attract deliverers. The music might one day stop, but it won’t be because anybody really wants it to. At the very worst, DoorDash or something like it might be the best way to put in a pickup order.
richard___ 3y ago
self driving cars
- ketchupdebugger 3y ago
  I've seen delivery robots on the streets of Santa Monica, those are wild.
s3p 3y ago
This is not an in-app purchase in the same way a traditional subscription for an app might be processed. This goes entirely through DoorDash, and Apple does not see any % of revenue sent from the user to DD for their order.
boeingUH60 3y ago
The industry is surviving on investor cash…DoorDash founders have already cashed out generational wealth, so they’ll be fine whether the grift collapses or not.
chatmasta 3y ago
Does it depend on that? It will affect the cost to DoorDash, but if the premise of the lawsuit is unfairness of price discrimination based on device operating system, then I don't see how it's relevant to the end customer that DoorDash pays a different cost for their transaction. That said, I'm personally skeptical that the premise is even defendable in the first place. Operating system is not a protected class and so I don't see any legal basis for why a company couldn't price discriminate based on it.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  As a shopkeeper, I can offer a discount for cash rather than credit card. Why couldn't I offer a similar discount for some other device characteristic, especially if there's a direct line between that choice and the economics to me? (I'm agreeing and extending, not disagreeing.)
- ketchupdebugger 3y ago
  If doordash says we charge a X% fee but then Apple charges Y% on top while android charges no fee then logically it should be higher on Apple. If doordash is saying we charge a higher fee on Apple because Apple users are generally wealthier, thats pretty discriminatory.
  - sharemywin 3y ago
    but wealth also not a protected class.
dubcanada 3y ago
> restaurants are complaining that they dont make enough via the apps Is this true? I can't think of any reason why a restaurant would put themselves on the app and spend all of that time managing it (Uber/Skip) if they feel they don't make enough?
- whatarethembits 3y ago
  We briefly dabbled into running a takeaway in the UK; these apps have changed customer behaviour such that if you’re not on it, you won’t get much business at all. So it’s not much of a choice; and yes ordering from one of these apps practically sucks all profit margin away, order directly from the place if you can.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- CaptainZapp 3y ago
  Some restaurants never allowed to be listed and Door Dash listed them anyway. They were also sued for such shady practices. From [0]: "The apps have posted restaurants’ menus and allowed people to order food for delivery by the apps’ drivers — without the restaurants’ permission." [0] https://www.cpr.org/2021/05/19/restaurants-are-fed-up-with-grubhub-doordash-and-others-now-theyve-got-legislators-on-their-side/ https://www.cpr.org/2021/05/19/restaurants-are-fed-up-with-g...
  - InitialLastName 3y ago
    Some of these delivery apps have gone so far as to create fake websites for restaurants and hijacked Yelp and Google Maps location entries to drive customers to use the app to place their order. Then they go to the restaurant and say "We're generating this much business for you... if you give us a cut, we'll generate more" and the spiral starts.
  - sumthinprofound 3y ago
    This happened back in 2019 with a restaurant I have a stake in. We did not enter into an agreement with Door Dash. Door Dash would call and place a pick-up order. The driver would come in and attempt to pay for the order with a debit card. The card got declined. Another (exactly the same order) gets called in, a different driver shows up - card got declined. Staff thought it was a scam. They noticed the same type of debit card was used for both orders. Finally a driver informed us it was a door dash order. They scraped an old menu online with outdated prices, and loaded the debit card with the amount they calculated from the outdated menu. Staff called back the phone number that placed the orders, explained the issue, and let Door Dash know there were 2 orders (sitting for over an hour, no longer saleable) that they owed [amount] for before we would take any additional orders from them, and that they needed to pay in advance over the phone before we would make any more food for them. Horrible experience, would never do business with them.
jonplackett 3y ago
Apple don’t take a cut of physical items
golemiprague 3y ago
[dead]
AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> Delivery apps are an interesting industry because it seems that no one is making money. There are a lot of potential industries that have to start out like this. Suppose you have a downtown where there are a dozen restaurants within a few blocks of each other, and then customers in a residential area on the other side of town. If you try to hire someone to go pick up the food for one person and deliver it to one customer on the other side of town, it's totally hopeless and you'll never make any money. But if you could get the same driver to pick up meals for a dozen people at once and then deliver them to customers who all live near each other, now you have a chance of turning a profit. That's a chicken and egg problem, because the first customer isn't going to pay the full price of the trip, so you have no first customer and never get enough business going to reach the level of efficiency required. Now suppose they operate by burning VC money for a while until they get enough usage to turn a profit.
- wizofaus 3y ago
  All the food delivery riders I see have carrying capacity for 2 or 3 orders at most - there's no way it's a dozen. Most of the time I'm pretty sure they're only carrying a single order.
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    Which is why they're not making any money yet.
    - wizofaus 3y ago
      But how would they get to that sort of carrying capacity? They almost never use cars around here and I doubt it would be viable (parking issues, cost of vehicle ownership/maintenance etc.).
      - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorized_tricycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorized_tricycle And if battery prices continue to decline, electric "motorcycles" (i.e. 3-wheeled cars) with low maintenance costs will be available for similar prices.

justizin 3y ago

> Really depends on if the cost increase is due to Apple taking a cut. Apple only takes a cut of virtual goods. This is why you cannot buy Kindle books on iOS without going to the website, but you can buy a television.

SllX 3y ago

Somebody’s salary is getting paid, a demand is being supplied and while they may not be making enough, there’s enough money to be made to attract deliverers. The music might one day stop, but it won’t be because anybody really wants it to. At the very worst, DoorDash or something like it might be the best way to put in a pickup order.

richard___ 3y ago

self driving cars

ketchupdebugger 3y ago
I've seen delivery robots on the streets of Santa Monica, those are wild.

s3p 3y ago

This is not an in-app purchase in the same way a traditional subscription for an app might be processed. This goes entirely through DoorDash, and Apple does not see any % of revenue sent from the user to DD for their order.

boeingUH60 3y ago

The industry is surviving on investor cash…DoorDash founders have already cashed out generational wealth, so they’ll be fine whether the grift collapses or not.

chatmasta 3y ago

Does it depend on that? It will affect the cost to DoorDash, but if the premise of the lawsuit is unfairness of price discrimination based on device operating system, then I don't see how it's relevant to the end customer that DoorDash pays a different cost for their transaction. That said, I'm personally skeptical that the premise is even defendable in the first place. Operating system is not a protected class and so I don't see any legal basis for why a company couldn't price discriminate based on it.

sokoloff 3y ago
As a shopkeeper, I can offer a discount for cash rather than credit card. Why couldn't I offer a similar discount for some other device characteristic, especially if there's a direct line between that choice and the economics to me? (I'm agreeing and extending, not disagreeing.)
ketchupdebugger 3y ago
If doordash says we charge a X% fee but then Apple charges Y% on top while android charges no fee then logically it should be higher on Apple. If doordash is saying we charge a higher fee on Apple because Apple users are generally wealthier, thats pretty discriminatory.
- sharemywin 3y ago
  but wealth also not a protected class.

dubcanada 3y ago

> restaurants are complaining that they dont make enough via the apps Is this true? I can't think of any reason why a restaurant would put themselves on the app and spend all of that time managing it (Uber/Skip) if they feel they don't make enough?

whatarethembits 3y ago
We briefly dabbled into running a takeaway in the UK; these apps have changed customer behaviour such that if you’re not on it, you won’t get much business at all. So it’s not much of a choice; and yes ordering from one of these apps practically sucks all profit margin away, order directly from the place if you can.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
CaptainZapp 3y ago
Some restaurants never allowed to be listed and Door Dash listed them anyway. They were also sued for such shady practices. From [0]: "The apps have posted restaurants’ menus and allowed people to order food for delivery by the apps’ drivers — without the restaurants’ permission." [0] https://www.cpr.org/2021/05/19/restaurants-are-fed-up-with-grubhub-doordash-and-others-now-theyve-got-legislators-on-their-side/ https://www.cpr.org/2021/05/19/restaurants-are-fed-up-with-g...
- InitialLastName 3y ago
  Some of these delivery apps have gone so far as to create fake websites for restaurants and hijacked Yelp and Google Maps location entries to drive customers to use the app to place their order. Then they go to the restaurant and say "We're generating this much business for you... if you give us a cut, we'll generate more" and the spiral starts.
- sumthinprofound 3y ago
  This happened back in 2019 with a restaurant I have a stake in. We did not enter into an agreement with Door Dash. Door Dash would call and place a pick-up order. The driver would come in and attempt to pay for the order with a debit card. The card got declined. Another (exactly the same order) gets called in, a different driver shows up - card got declined. Staff thought it was a scam. They noticed the same type of debit card was used for both orders. Finally a driver informed us it was a door dash order. They scraped an old menu online with outdated prices, and loaded the debit card with the amount they calculated from the outdated menu. Staff called back the phone number that placed the orders, explained the issue, and let Door Dash know there were 2 orders (sitting for over an hour, no longer saleable) that they owed [amount] for before we would take any additional orders from them, and that they needed to pay in advance over the phone before we would make any more food for them. Horrible experience, would never do business with them.

jonplackett 3y ago

Apple don’t take a cut of physical items

golemiprague 3y ago

[dead]

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

> Delivery apps are an interesting industry because it seems that no one is making money. There are a lot of potential industries that have to start out like this. Suppose you have a downtown where there are a dozen restaurants within a few blocks of each other, and then customers in a residential area on the other side of town. If you try to hire someone to go pick up the food for one person and deliver it to one customer on the other side of town, it's totally hopeless and you'll never make any money. But if you could get the same driver to pick up meals for a dozen people at once and then deliver them to customers who all live near each other, now you have a chance of turning a profit. That's a chicken and egg problem, because the first customer isn't going to pay the full price of the trip, so you have no first customer and never get enough business going to reach the level of efficiency required. Now suppose they operate by burning VC money for a while until they get enough usage to turn a profit.

wizofaus 3y ago
All the food delivery riders I see have carrying capacity for 2 or 3 orders at most - there's no way it's a dozen. Most of the time I'm pretty sure they're only carrying a single order.
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  Which is why they're not making any money yet.
  - wizofaus 3y ago
    But how would they get to that sort of carrying capacity? They almost never use cars around here and I doubt it would be viable (parking issues, cost of vehicle ownership/maintenance etc.).
    - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorized_tricycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorized_tricycle And if battery prices continue to decline, electric "motorcycles" (i.e. 3-wheeled cars) with low maintenance costs will be available for similar prices.