5 ms·

It's all so tiresome. When German leaders went online to celebrate turning off their last nuclear plant and instead turned on more coal I learned it was all the

• flandish 3y ago
  It really sends home the concept behind the phrase, “ain’t no war but class war.” This “ruling” class just does the theater to keep us in the, sometimes actual, dark.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• anononaut 3y ago
  It's like shouting in the darkness, isn't it? Don't become discouraged, though.
  • londons_explore 3y ago
    I see only two solutions: * A global carbon tax/cap/trading/limit system, with sanctions for any country that does not comply. * A realistic risk that a global compulsory carbon cap/tax/trading system will be implemented, and that any carbon emissions tracking will be backdated - such that any extra emissions today might disadvantage your country in the future. With neither of the above two, it is in every countries best interests to emit as much carbon as possible and use free/cheap carbon based energy to produce goods/food/whatever, while doing only a few highly visible environmental moves.
    • leesalminen 3y ago
      How often do these economic sanctions actually work? From my limited perspective they seem to only hurt the poor, whilst the rich find loophole after loophole and are largely unaffected.
      • nathanaldensr 3y ago
        It's magical thinking, and it's proven to be so over and over and over again. It's "Why don't we [ambiguous collective] just..." as public policy.
• oezi 3y ago
  We are fast approaching the point where renewables are cheaper than fossils. Why would anybody invest in them anymore?
  • mym1990 3y ago
    Investment isn't about how cheap something is, it is about how much of a return one can get on an item.
    • oezi 3y ago
      The assumption is that the price trajectories represent profitable investments at a given time.
    • meowkit 3y ago
      this video always comes to mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC_BCz0pzMw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC_BCz0pzMw The economic incentives (in a sort of basic example) are in favor of fossil fuel plants. It takes too long for traditional nuclear plants to have a return. Energy generation is sadly more complicated than I had hoped as a laymen. The sources have to compete on variable demand basis along with amortized costs over years. Nuclear needs novel designs with better economic returns, or to be given assistance by government to be more competitive on this amortized basis.
  • EricE 3y ago
    If that was actually true we would need to talk about it. It’s not, so here we are. Solar and wind do nothing for base load generation - except distract people from talking rationally about energy. I don’t know where people think all the power to charge electric cars is going to come from. And what transmission lines are going to carry the miracle of power either.
    • toomuchtodo 3y ago
      https://www.google.com/search?q=baseload+is+a+myth https://www.google.com/search?q=baseload+is+a+myth Feel free to pick a citation of your preference.
• Lutger 3y ago
  You are misinformed. Dutch don't seize farms because of global warming, in fact they haven't seized any farms so far. The problem in the Netherlands is about nitrogen depositions. Furthermore, we currently export more than two thirds of our agricultural output, and import two thirds as well. The possibly maybe eventual seizing of a couple of large and polluting meat farm / factories close by natural reserves won't have any effect on our ability to feed ourselves, at all. The problem is mostly about unsustainable ways to produce ungodly amounts of meat and milk, not 'farms' in general. Woke has nothing to do with it.
  • nostromo 3y ago
    > Dutch don't seize farms because of global warming This isn't true. A major goal of nitrogen cutting programs (started by the UN Environment Program) is to reduce climate change. You can read about it here: https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/four-reasons-why-world-needs-limit-nitrogen-pollution https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/four-reasons-why...
    • Lutger 3y ago
      Yes, but this is really not the main (or even a) reason why there is the threat of farms having to close shop or mandated to become more sustainable: this is based solely on nitrogen emissions damaging nearby nature reserves.
• toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Portugal, Spain, France, Sweden, Finland, the UK, and other parts of Europe are running on renewables or low carbon nuclear for a substantial amount of time. As oezi mentioned in a sibling comment, the cost of renewables is rapidly approaching a point where they are cheaper than fossil fuels. The solutions are clear, we just need to lean into them harder (and make it painful for those who choose to continue fossil BAU despite the cost reversal). https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/renewables-supplied-88-portugals-electricity-consumption-january-2023-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/renewables-supplied-8... (Renewables supplied 88% of Portugal's electricity consumption in January) https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-65557469 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-65557469 (Wind is main source of UK electricity for first time) https://english.elpais.com/spain/2023-05-19/the-nine-hours-in-which-spain-made-the-100-renewable-dream-a-reality.html https://english.elpais.com/spain/2023-05-19/the-nine-hours-i... (The nine hours in which Spain made the 100% renewable dream a reality) https://yle.fi/a/74-20032375 https://yle.fi/a/74-20032375 (Finnish nuclear plant throttles production as electricity price plunges) (My note: Estonia and Finland just signed an MOU to build an additional 1GW interconnector, "EstLink3", to import more clean energy from Finland but it won't be done until early 2030s) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35965186 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35965186 (HN: Renewables supplied 65% of new US utility-scale generating capacity in Q1 2023) https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/renewables-cheapest-form-power https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/renewables-cheapest-form... (Renewables: Cheapest form of power) https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/2023-levelized-cost-of-energyplus/ https://www.lazard.com/research-insights/2023-levelized-cost... (Lazard 2023 Levelized Cost Of Energy+) https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/Tesla-Master-Plan-Part-3.pdf https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/Tesla-Master-Plan-Part-3.pdf (Tesla Master Plan Part 3: Sustainable Energy for All of Earth) https://app.electricitymaps.com/map?wind=false&solar=false https://app.electricitymaps.com/map?wind=false&solar=false (Live global electrical generation mix data)
• mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Reminds me of the movie '12 monkeys', where the groups determined to save the world ended up destroying it. Would be funny in a way if GreenPeace's actual accomplishment was delaying nuclear until it was too late.
  • aksss 3y ago
    Isn’t that precisely the course correction we find ourselves having to make now? Decades of anti-nuclear sentiment calcified into regulatory opposition that needs to be unwound. Yeah, real funny. If there’s a lesson here we should all take to heart, it’s this: beware of letting bandwagon sentimental movements dictate policy.
  • cycomanic 3y ago
    Nuclear is not a solution that will save us. In fact it is counterproductive to build nuclear. I know it hurts the sensibilities of many of the technerds here on HN, but renewables are already several factors cheaper than nuclear and are still on an exponential cost reduction curve. So if you build a nuclear power plant you have less CO2 reduction than if you use the money for renewables. And no we don't need nuclear for baseload (hint renewables are baseload) and nuclear costs are not dominated by regulation any more than other power sources (Nuclear had >50 years, of development and government subsidies, that's 30 more than solar. And they still did not get onto an exponential cost reduction rate).
• ragebol 3y ago
  > The dutch seizing farms in the name of global warming. 1. Seizing farms is not happening here, only a few farms have been sold by the owning farmers to the government. 2. The aim is to reduce nitrogen emissions, which have been accumulating in the ground. The Netherlands is a net exporter, apparently, so we could stand to loose some food production. But yes, Dutch farms are very efficient per area. We should export that expertise, and I think we actually do that too
  • leesalminen 3y ago
    > The Netherlands is a net exporter, apparently, so we could stand to loose some food production. The countries importing that food will now have to import from somewhere else. It doesn’t seem to be solving any climate problem, just shifting it elsewhere.
    • mcv 3y ago
      Nobody has to pickk this up. It's unnecessary surplus that only does damage. A third of all the food in the world is thrown away. European food production is too high because of the way agricultural subsidies work, and the surplus is dumped, often below market price, on the global market, driving farmers in Africa and India out of business. Literally the only reason not to reduce this excessive production is in order to protect established business interests and not rock the boat. That doesn't meam buying out farms is necessarily the way to go. A lot can be done to reduce nitrate pollution by changing the feed for cattle, letting them roam outside as much as possible (the biggest polluters are factory farms woth thousands of animals), and other measures. But reducing the food production won't cause any problems; it will solve them. EU farm subsidies shouldn't be rewarding production at any cost, but sustainable production and care for the environment.
    • ragebol 3y ago
      See point 2, it's not about climate but our local environment, where too much nitrogen has been deposited. Maybe we should export the meat and ship the nitrogen with it and distribute the emissions instead of it all piling up here.
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• j-pb 3y ago
  Your are misinformed/wrong. Germany only had 5% nuclear, those have been replaced by renewables not by coal[1]. Those reactors were at the end of their lifespans anyways. Would nuclear have been great if we never stopped investing in the technology? Maybe, but as it stands now it's much cheaper and way way faster to install renewables than to install nuclear. (Nuclear power plants have lead times in decades and cost overruns in the billions.) As for your farming claim. Netherlands is reducing milk and meat production, products that have been artificially propped up EU wide by subsidiaries. Meat and diary are one of the biggest contributors of greenhouse gasses and the major driving force behind deforestation (more than 80% in terms of area). Nobody is going to starve without meat or diary, in fact you are much less likely to have certain diseases on a vegan diet. As for vitamin deficiencies, almost everybody is B12 and D deficient, including omnivores, so you should take vitamin supplements anyways. In fact most cows are B12 deficient too (not enough grass feed), so we inject them with vitamin boosters, so you might as well cut out the middleman. 1: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...
• dutchdev 3y ago
  [flagged]
• kingTug 3y ago
  How do you define "woke?"
  • wonderwonder 3y ago
    Pretty much sums up my views (SFW): https://twitter.com/TheRabbitHole84/status/1659612394170232832/photo/1 https://twitter.com/TheRabbitHole84/status/16596123941702328...
  • timeon 3y ago
    Not sleepy.
• teekert 3y ago
  Cheap abundant clean energy will make a change. Some say it's about to happen, I think we need to do more research. Maybe some of that super intelligence will help us.
• matsemann 3y ago
  You're concern trolling, and what you're doing is a great disservice to those trying to make a change. Lets attack a few misguided attempts, spread some FUD and remove the focus from things that matter, all while brewing hopelessness.
  • wonderwonder 3y ago
    Friend, I'm expressing myself on a thread that maybe a couple hundred people will read. If I set back climate reform then it was doomed to begin with. I have no idea what "concern trolling" is. I think nuclear is required to offset climate change. I think western countries shutting down farms is immoral and idiotic. I think expecting western countries to willingly handicap themselves in hopes it will make a difference while upcoming nations including China go full speed is dumb. If that's concern trolling then sure, I'm that.
• _hypx 3y ago
  We're nearly at the point where geoengineering is necessary. People will oppose this like nuclear power, but there's not many alternatives left. Even if we do have a solution to stop climate change, it is simply not going to happen in time.
• newZWhoDis 3y ago
  I no longer believe they’re fools, hanlon’s razor is/was a mistake. They’re malicious.