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And it is costly to try and take inch by inch. They lost it inch by inch and paid a very high price. Why do you think they sent some of their best units there,

And it is costly to try and take inch by inch. They lost it inch by inch and paid a very high price. Why do you think they sent some of their best units there, like the “Da Vinci Wolves“, and lost good chunks of them, including, incidentally, said unit’s founder and national hero “Da Vinci“? This is not a secret, the obituaries are all public.

Gud 3y ago
Makes a lot of sense to me. So the Ukrainians took heavy losses. For the Russians it was much worse. The Ukrainians has managed to build up an enormous defense around the city and the Russian offense has been effectively halted, and for what? So they can rule the ruins of Bakhmut, for a little while? The Ukrainians will push back now. My bet is they will encircle what's left of Bakhmut, forcing the Russians to surrender the city(or whats left of it).
- rainworld 3y ago
  For the Russians it was much worse. A claim that is repeated ad nauseam, but entirely without evidence. Reminder: At the beginning of the year the BBC had a count of 20k. You can double or triple that if you like but it’s never going to be close to what (pro-)Ukrainians claim. Also: The number of Wagner fighters gets way exaggerated. They were at a numerical disadvantage till the end. managed to build up an enormous defense around the city That’s not how it works. They spent years turning Bakhmut into a giant fortress city. (They even wrote that stupid song about it.) They fought tooth and nails over it. They rotated dozens of brigades through it, an untold number of men. But it just was not enough. This is not their last shot at a defense in the region, but it was their best. offense has been effectively halted What offense? Only major Russian operation so far this year was Bakhmut. They are not in a rush. So they can rule the ruins of Bakhmut, for a little while? Couple months ago, per Zelensky, Bakhmut was strategically vital and not to be lost. Let me guess, a ruse? “Dumb orcs hehe” The Ukrainians will push back now. Oh, they will almost inevitably do something, somewhere. But the fact that they managed to retake a lightly-defended area that one time gives people all kinds of crazy ideas. Sure, they will probably manage an advance somewhere (at great cost, of course), get stuck after a couple days … and then what? Think Putler’s just going to nope out of the war because Twitter NAFOids are in ecstasy? My bet is they will encircle what's left of Bakhmut How? With what units? Not only did they send their best units to Bakhmut, they had to send some of their fresh, Western-trained ones too. Which were under strength in the first place.
  - fauxpause_ 3y ago
    Here is Russian ultra nationalist Girkin’s take https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1660273337744982023?cxt=HHwWjoC85bvzvIouAAAA https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1660273337744982023... > Oh, they will almost inevitably do something, somewhere. But the fact that they managed to retake a lightly-defended area that one time gives people all kinds of crazy ideas. That lightly defended area was 12000 km.
    - rainworld 3y ago
      Gonna let you in on a little secret: Colonel Girkin has never not been fulfilling his duty, not now and and not in 2014. Make of that what you will.
      - fauxpause_ 3y ago
        Neither have most Russia military men
  - Gud 3y ago
    Sorry man but you are delusional if you think this is the best the Ukrainians have got. The Russians are in for a world of hurt. While the Russians have depleted their forces, the Ukrainians have spent the winter training on modern military equipment from the west. As one example of many, take a look at this: https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukrainian-brigade-was-trained-in-sweden-media/ https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukrainian-brigade-was-trained-in-s... So far nothing the Ukrainians have used comes close to the above mentioned brigade. The Russians don’t have anything to match. In addition, they have one massive advantage which is the continuous support of the U.S. intelligence services, nothing the Russians have come close. I don’t doubt the Russians are continuously improving their strategy and tactics - not hard considering how badly they’ve been doing since the war started.
    - rainworld 3y ago
      If this war has shown one thing it’s that the thing that matters most is mass: Massed artillery fire, millions of shells, thousands of armoured vehicles, and so on. A couple of glorified regiments, green ones at that? That’s not it. No matter the quality of the gear and training. The West is not prepared for industrial warfare, and inexplicably to me they are barely trying to change that. Massed hot air but not much to show for it. (And besides, the fact that in Bakhmut the Ukrainian army with plenty of Western gear and training got beat by Wagner plus artillery support alone should get you to question the notion of qualitative superiority. And I just don’t understand how people can come to the conclusion that the Russian forces in Ukraine are depleted when they’ve at least doubled in size, and gear just keeps pouring in.) Ultimately, we don’t have to fight here, by all acounts Ukrainians are going to show us in a few days what they can or cannot do. And then we’ll see.
fauxpause_ 3y ago
I mean it’s sucks that this guy died but it was still a successful op. 9 months of Russian offensive and they got nothing of value.
golergka 3y ago
> They lost it inch by inch and paid a very high price. Why do you think they sent some of their best units there, like the “Da Vinci Wolves“, and lost good chunks of them, including, incidentally, said unit’s founder and national hero “Da Vinci“? To make Russia lose much more forces in the attack. It's a simple gambit — lose 1 soldier to make enemy lose 2 (or more). Makes sense to lose an unimportant and pretty small piece of territory like that. Doesn't make any sense to retake it with reverse proportion of losses.

Gud 3y ago

Makes a lot of sense to me. So the Ukrainians took heavy losses. For the Russians it was much worse. The Ukrainians has managed to build up an enormous defense around the city and the Russian offense has been effectively halted, and for what? So they can rule the ruins of Bakhmut, for a little while? The Ukrainians will push back now. My bet is they will encircle what's left of Bakhmut, forcing the Russians to surrender the city(or whats left of it).

rainworld 3y ago
For the Russians it was much worse. A claim that is repeated ad nauseam, but entirely without evidence. Reminder: At the beginning of the year the BBC had a count of 20k. You can double or triple that if you like but it’s never going to be close to what (pro-)Ukrainians claim. Also: The number of Wagner fighters gets way exaggerated. They were at a numerical disadvantage till the end. managed to build up an enormous defense around the city That’s not how it works. They spent years turning Bakhmut into a giant fortress city. (They even wrote that stupid song about it.) They fought tooth and nails over it. They rotated dozens of brigades through it, an untold number of men. But it just was not enough. This is not their last shot at a defense in the region, but it was their best. offense has been effectively halted What offense? Only major Russian operation so far this year was Bakhmut. They are not in a rush. So they can rule the ruins of Bakhmut, for a little while? Couple months ago, per Zelensky, Bakhmut was strategically vital and not to be lost. Let me guess, a ruse? “Dumb orcs hehe” The Ukrainians will push back now. Oh, they will almost inevitably do something, somewhere. But the fact that they managed to retake a lightly-defended area that one time gives people all kinds of crazy ideas. Sure, they will probably manage an advance somewhere (at great cost, of course), get stuck after a couple days … and then what? Think Putler’s just going to nope out of the war because Twitter NAFOids are in ecstasy? My bet is they will encircle what's left of Bakhmut How? With what units? Not only did they send their best units to Bakhmut, they had to send some of their fresh, Western-trained ones too. Which were under strength in the first place.
- fauxpause_ 3y ago
  Here is Russian ultra nationalist Girkin’s take https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1660273337744982023?cxt=HHwWjoC85bvzvIouAAAA https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1660273337744982023... > Oh, they will almost inevitably do something, somewhere. But the fact that they managed to retake a lightly-defended area that one time gives people all kinds of crazy ideas. That lightly defended area was 12000 km.
  - rainworld 3y ago
    Gonna let you in on a little secret: Colonel Girkin has never not been fulfilling his duty, not now and and not in 2014. Make of that what you will.
    - fauxpause_ 3y ago
      Neither have most Russia military men
- Gud 3y ago
  Sorry man but you are delusional if you think this is the best the Ukrainians have got. The Russians are in for a world of hurt. While the Russians have depleted their forces, the Ukrainians have spent the winter training on modern military equipment from the west. As one example of many, take a look at this: https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukrainian-brigade-was-trained-in-sweden-media/ https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukrainian-brigade-was-trained-in-s... So far nothing the Ukrainians have used comes close to the above mentioned brigade. The Russians don’t have anything to match. In addition, they have one massive advantage which is the continuous support of the U.S. intelligence services, nothing the Russians have come close. I don’t doubt the Russians are continuously improving their strategy and tactics - not hard considering how badly they’ve been doing since the war started.
  - rainworld 3y ago
    If this war has shown one thing it’s that the thing that matters most is mass: Massed artillery fire, millions of shells, thousands of armoured vehicles, and so on. A couple of glorified regiments, green ones at that? That’s not it. No matter the quality of the gear and training. The West is not prepared for industrial warfare, and inexplicably to me they are barely trying to change that. Massed hot air but not much to show for it. (And besides, the fact that in Bakhmut the Ukrainian army with plenty of Western gear and training got beat by Wagner plus artillery support alone should get you to question the notion of qualitative superiority. And I just don’t understand how people can come to the conclusion that the Russian forces in Ukraine are depleted when they’ve at least doubled in size, and gear just keeps pouring in.) Ultimately, we don’t have to fight here, by all acounts Ukrainians are going to show us in a few days what they can or cannot do. And then we’ll see.

fauxpause_ 3y ago

I mean it’s sucks that this guy died but it was still a successful op. 9 months of Russian offensive and they got nothing of value.

golergka 3y ago

> They lost it inch by inch and paid a very high price. Why do you think they sent some of their best units there, like the “Da Vinci Wolves“, and lost good chunks of them, including, incidentally, said unit’s founder and national hero “Da Vinci“? To make Russia lose much more forces in the attack. It's a simple gambit — lose 1 soldier to make enemy lose 2 (or more). Makes sense to lose an unimportant and pretty small piece of territory like that. Doesn't make any sense to retake it with reverse proportion of losses.