4 ms·

It appears his acquittal was based on a technicality (language within the Economic Espionage Act) and he has pretty much admitted that he did something wrong (u

It appears his acquittal was based on a technicality (language within the Economic Espionage Act) and he has pretty much admitted that he did something wrong (uploaded it to a server in Germany to bypass Goldman's security): At trial, Mr. Marino, the lawyer for Mr. Aleynikov, acknowledge that his client breached Goldman’s confidentiality agreements, but insisted that he did not commit a crime. So, it would seem that Goldman should rightly be rather upset about this, as much as I dislike Goldman, they seem to be in the right here?

veyron 15y ago
The issue in this case wasnt over whether Aleynikov did something wrong (he even admitted as much). The issue is over how he should be punished. Goldman should be upset, but that doesnt necessarily mean he deserves the degree of punishment that the Economic Espionage Act entails.
- pemulis 15y ago
  I wonder if Teza even used the code Aleynikov took with him. If they didn't, would he even face civil penalties?
  - mjwalshe 15y ago
    Still he could be done on theft of trade secrets & breach of contract and Teza could see what GS had tried what wored what didnt which is worth a lot.
  - roel_v 15y ago
    Punitive damages maybe, plus maybe contractual obligations on damages in case of breach. If they didn't use it, and if a civil case was purely based on damage caused (two big ifs), I don't think there would be much of a (civil) case, no, because there needs to be causality between the breach and the damages, which then there wouldn't be.
- roel_v 15y ago
  "The issue is over how he should be punished." Eh, no, that's not what the issue is about. The article states explicitly that no reason for the reversal was given (yet), but it seems to be about the extent of 'interstate commerce'. I.e., a purely technical legal point, having nothing to do with the material matters in the case.
  - timwiseman 15y ago
    But they are related. If the conviction was upheld, he could be punished criminally with jail time. With the conviction overturned, Goldman can still go after him civilly for breach of contract which is relatively similar to a fine.
    - roel_v 15y ago
      "Relatively similar"? No it's not. Criminal conviction or not, GS could still sue, albeit that the proof would be easier. Either way, I don't understand the relationship between your post and mine, or the whole point that is being made here.
tpatke 15y ago
I used to work at Goldman's and I can tell you that they will be absolutely furious about this. I have never worked at a company so paranoid about having work stolen. Once - a friend of mine sent me an email with a tag-line with a bit of code in it. When I replied the email filters picked it up and I had to explain to my boss why I was trying to "export" Goldman's code. They are nuts about it. Goldman put a lot of time and energy into making an example out of this guy. He blatantly "did it" - they had recorded phone conversations of him talking to his new boss and uploading code immediately after. I know the details because we received almost weekly reports on the case via the corporate intranet (in the "news" section). Goldman wants their people scared so nobody else tries this. I always found it a bit odd because the court sentenced this guy to 8 years. Ummm... ok. But why is Fabrice Tourre still walking around? Justice indeed.
- AznHisoka 15y ago
  is the culture there as back-stabbing and ruthless as it seems like to outsiders? Or is it just an exaggeration and people are mostly nice and pleasant, albeit ambitious?
  - SkyMarshal 15y ago
    Probably both. I have a couple friends there and they're some of the smartest, most decent human beings I know. On the other hand you get stories like this, and the Fabrice Tourre's and whatnot. Grey, not black or white.
- spinlock 15y ago
  Forget Fabrice Tourre, how about John Corzine? The government isn't even going to use the law _that he created_ to go after him for stealing client money.
  - illumin8 15y ago
    What bothers me more about this particular case is that Goldman's attorneys claimed that this code could be used to manipulate the market, and yet the SEC did nothing to investigate. You have documented court testimony of a market participant (Goldman) claiming they have the ability to manipulate the market. This should be a slam dunk if we had regulators with anything remotely resembling balls.
kamagmar 15y ago
He didn't intentionally upload code to Germany. He uploaded to xp-dev.com, and the server happened to be in Germany.
pwaring 15y ago
It's fair that they're upset, 8 years in prison seems overly harsh though. In fact, any time in prison seems a bit over the top for what is essentially a breach of contract and therefore a civil matter between Goldman and the ex-employee.
- mistercow 15y ago
  > 8 years in prison seems overly harsh though Seriously, it's not like he sold a 4 oz of weed or anything.
- publicus 15y ago
  Most Goldman exec should be executed already for crimes against the United States if that guy get's 8 years.
j_baker 15y ago
I think this is a case where the right thing happened for the wrong reason. I don't doubt that the defendant wronged Goldman Sachs. But it's clearly absurd that he should have to spend 8 years in federal prison for it.
fleitz 15y ago
It's not a technicality, they charged him under an inappropriate statute. If you punch someone and get charged with murder then you'll be acquitted since you did not commit the alleged crime of murder. It's not a technicality but incompetence on the part of the prosecutor. There probably is a statute that is appropriate for this but didn't carry enough time to satisfy the prosecutor. Prosecutors often inflate charges so people will deal down to a lesser charge. To me it sounds like he's admitted to a tort which GS could have resolved on its own with out using public resources.

veyron 15y ago

The issue in this case wasnt over whether Aleynikov did something wrong (he even admitted as much). The issue is over how he should be punished. Goldman should be upset, but that doesnt necessarily mean he deserves the degree of punishment that the Economic Espionage Act entails.

pemulis 15y ago
I wonder if Teza even used the code Aleynikov took with him. If they didn't, would he even face civil penalties?
- mjwalshe 15y ago
  Still he could be done on theft of trade secrets & breach of contract and Teza could see what GS had tried what wored what didnt which is worth a lot.
- roel_v 15y ago
  Punitive damages maybe, plus maybe contractual obligations on damages in case of breach. If they didn't use it, and if a civil case was purely based on damage caused (two big ifs), I don't think there would be much of a (civil) case, no, because there needs to be causality between the breach and the damages, which then there wouldn't be.
roel_v 15y ago
"The issue is over how he should be punished." Eh, no, that's not what the issue is about. The article states explicitly that no reason for the reversal was given (yet), but it seems to be about the extent of 'interstate commerce'. I.e., a purely technical legal point, having nothing to do with the material matters in the case.
- timwiseman 15y ago
  But they are related. If the conviction was upheld, he could be punished criminally with jail time. With the conviction overturned, Goldman can still go after him civilly for breach of contract which is relatively similar to a fine.
  - roel_v 15y ago
    "Relatively similar"? No it's not. Criminal conviction or not, GS could still sue, albeit that the proof would be easier. Either way, I don't understand the relationship between your post and mine, or the whole point that is being made here.

tpatke 15y ago

I used to work at Goldman's and I can tell you that they will be absolutely furious about this. I have never worked at a company so paranoid about having work stolen. Once - a friend of mine sent me an email with a tag-line with a bit of code in it. When I replied the email filters picked it up and I had to explain to my boss why I was trying to "export" Goldman's code. They are nuts about it. Goldman put a lot of time and energy into making an example out of this guy. He blatantly "did it" - they had recorded phone conversations of him talking to his new boss and uploading code immediately after. I know the details because we received almost weekly reports on the case via the corporate intranet (in the "news" section). Goldman wants their people scared so nobody else tries this. I always found it a bit odd because the court sentenced this guy to 8 years. Ummm... ok. But why is Fabrice Tourre still walking around? Justice indeed.

AznHisoka 15y ago
is the culture there as back-stabbing and ruthless as it seems like to outsiders? Or is it just an exaggeration and people are mostly nice and pleasant, albeit ambitious?
- SkyMarshal 15y ago
  Probably both. I have a couple friends there and they're some of the smartest, most decent human beings I know. On the other hand you get stories like this, and the Fabrice Tourre's and whatnot. Grey, not black or white.
spinlock 15y ago
Forget Fabrice Tourre, how about John Corzine? The government isn't even going to use the law _that he created_ to go after him for stealing client money.
- illumin8 15y ago
  What bothers me more about this particular case is that Goldman's attorneys claimed that this code could be used to manipulate the market, and yet the SEC did nothing to investigate. You have documented court testimony of a market participant (Goldman) claiming they have the ability to manipulate the market. This should be a slam dunk if we had regulators with anything remotely resembling balls.

kamagmar 15y ago

He didn't intentionally upload code to Germany. He uploaded to xp-dev.com, and the server happened to be in Germany.

pwaring 15y ago

It's fair that they're upset, 8 years in prison seems overly harsh though. In fact, any time in prison seems a bit over the top for what is essentially a breach of contract and therefore a civil matter between Goldman and the ex-employee.

mistercow 15y ago
> 8 years in prison seems overly harsh though Seriously, it's not like he sold a 4 oz of weed or anything.
publicus 15y ago
Most Goldman exec should be executed already for crimes against the United States if that guy get's 8 years.

j_baker 15y ago

I think this is a case where the right thing happened for the wrong reason. I don't doubt that the defendant wronged Goldman Sachs. But it's clearly absurd that he should have to spend 8 years in federal prison for it.

fleitz 15y ago

It's not a technicality, they charged him under an inappropriate statute. If you punch someone and get charged with murder then you'll be acquitted since you did not commit the alleged crime of murder. It's not a technicality but incompetence on the part of the prosecutor. There probably is a statute that is appropriate for this but didn't carry enough time to satisfy the prosecutor. Prosecutors often inflate charges so people will deal down to a lesser charge. To me it sounds like he's admitted to a tort which GS could have resolved on its own with out using public resources.