5 ms·

To everyone defending this, if you were to cancel a physical magazine or newspaper subscription, should the publisher be allowed to send goons to break into you

To everyone defending this, if you were to cancel a physical magazine or newspaper subscription, should the publisher be allowed to send goons to break into your house and burn all of the issues they already sent you, or should they have to settle for just not sending you any more new ones?

boomboomsubban 3y ago
I'm not defending this, but that's not really a fair analogy. It's more like "the gym already gave you a keycard, why should they cancel your access just because you stopped paying for the membership?"
- buzzy_hacker 3y ago
  Every gym membership I’ve had would let you finish the current month.
  - mwint 3y ago
    To extend the strained analogy, they do let you finish the month (of printing pages). The complaint here is more “my keycard barcode is still legible, but it stopped working at the end of the month”.
  - simiones 3y ago
    As does this one from HP. The OP mentions explicitly that they let their subscription expire, and the printer THEN stopped printing.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    Cancellations and plan downgrades are effective after the last day of the current billing cycle. https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/cv/instantink https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/cv/instantink
- josephcsible 3y ago
  I'd consider that more analogous to what HP did if they made you send back all of your old cartridges, but they don't. HP doesn't treat the cartridges like you're renting them, and doesn't care about getting them back, just that you can't use them anymore.
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    The gym is selling access to the equipment and HP is selling access to the printer. Both the keycard and the ink cartridge are tools provided to allow you to use your access. Neither require you to return the tool providing you access after you cancel.
- fomine3 3y ago
  Analogies keep failing
ceejayoz 3y ago
Do you genuinely think those two scenarios are fairly comparable?
- josephcsible 3y ago
  Yes. In both cases, you were paying for a recurring delivery of a physical product, and the question is when you stop paying for new ones, should the seller be able to keep you from getting any value from the old ones too?
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > In both cases, you were paying for a recurring delivery of a physical product... This is precisely where the analogy falls down. https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html Each plan talks about paying for x pages per month. It's pretty clear you're not paying for recurring delivery of a product; if you only print a few pages a year, you may never need a second delivery, ever.
    - josephcsible 3y ago
      > This is precisely where the analogy falls down. No it doesn't. The reason you're paying is for the ink to be delivered, even if pricing is only indirectly related to that. > if you only print a few pages a year, you may never need a second delivery, ever. This isn't true because the cartridges dry out and clog up if you don't use them enough.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        > The reason you're paying is for the ink to be delivered No, you're paying to be able to print up to 10 pages a month. Thought experiment: If signing up for a subscription required an agreement to mail (postage-paid) the cartridge back to them when the subscription lapses, would that be legitimate?
        3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Karellen 3y ago
It depends. Did the contract that you agreed to and signed of your own free will, without coercion or duress, give the publisher the right to send goons to break into your house and burn all the issues they already sent you after you cancelled? I would argue that if that is indeed what you actually agreed to, yes, the publisher should be allowed to do that. The obvious solution is - don't accept stupid fucking contracts with terms you don't actually agree to!
t0mas88 3y ago
Well HP also doesn't make you burn all the pages already printer right? They just don't let you print new pages with a cartridge you didn't pay for. This would be easier to understand if you had to return the cartridge after cancellation, but they probably figured it's cheaper to let you throw it away.
astura 3y ago
They didn't confiscate already printed pages, they stopped allowing you to print more.

boomboomsubban 3y ago

I'm not defending this, but that's not really a fair analogy. It's more like "the gym already gave you a keycard, why should they cancel your access just because you stopped paying for the membership?"

buzzy_hacker 3y ago
Every gym membership I’ve had would let you finish the current month.
- mwint 3y ago
  To extend the strained analogy, they do let you finish the month (of printing pages). The complaint here is more “my keycard barcode is still legible, but it stopped working at the end of the month”.
- simiones 3y ago
  As does this one from HP. The OP mentions explicitly that they let their subscription expire, and the printer THEN stopped printing.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  Cancellations and plan downgrades are effective after the last day of the current billing cycle. https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/cv/instantink https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/cv/instantink
josephcsible 3y ago
I'd consider that more analogous to what HP did if they made you send back all of your old cartridges, but they don't. HP doesn't treat the cartridges like you're renting them, and doesn't care about getting them back, just that you can't use them anymore.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  The gym is selling access to the equipment and HP is selling access to the printer. Both the keycard and the ink cartridge are tools provided to allow you to use your access. Neither require you to return the tool providing you access after you cancel.
fomine3 3y ago
Analogies keep failing

ceejayoz 3y ago

Do you genuinely think those two scenarios are fairly comparable?

josephcsible 3y ago
Yes. In both cases, you were paying for a recurring delivery of a physical product, and the question is when you stop paying for new ones, should the seller be able to keep you from getting any value from the old ones too?
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  > In both cases, you were paying for a recurring delivery of a physical product... This is precisely where the analogy falls down. https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html https://www.hp.com/us-en/printers/instant-ink/plans.html Each plan talks about paying for x pages per month. It's pretty clear you're not paying for recurring delivery of a product; if you only print a few pages a year, you may never need a second delivery, ever.
  - josephcsible 3y ago
    > This is precisely where the analogy falls down. No it doesn't. The reason you're paying is for the ink to be delivered, even if pricing is only indirectly related to that. > if you only print a few pages a year, you may never need a second delivery, ever. This isn't true because the cartridges dry out and clog up if you don't use them enough.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      > The reason you're paying is for the ink to be delivered No, you're paying to be able to print up to 10 pages a month. Thought experiment: If signing up for a subscription required an agreement to mail (postage-paid) the cartridge back to them when the subscription lapses, would that be legitimate?
      - 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Karellen 3y ago

It depends. Did the contract that you agreed to and signed of your own free will, without coercion or duress, give the publisher the right to send goons to break into your house and burn all the issues they already sent you after you cancelled? I would argue that if that is indeed what you actually agreed to, yes, the publisher should be allowed to do that. The obvious solution is - don't accept stupid fucking contracts with terms you don't actually agree to!

t0mas88 3y ago

Well HP also doesn't make you burn all the pages already printer right? They just don't let you print new pages with a cartridge you didn't pay for. This would be easier to understand if you had to return the cartridge after cancellation, but they probably figured it's cheaper to let you throw it away.

astura 3y ago

They didn't confiscate already printed pages, they stopped allowing you to print more.