4 ms·

Can we actually have a discussion on here about printer manufacturers' practices, and which companies engage in this type of behaviour? If we could figure out

by calini 3y ago

Can we actually have a discussion on here about printer manufacturers' practices, and which companies engage in this type of behaviour? If we could figure out who the companies that don't engage in this are, maybe we can change our purchasing decisions slightly and help steer the market towards less craziness.

SargeDebian 3y ago
Every single post about printers turns into that and the answer is mostly Brother.
wahnfrieden 3y ago
Neolib fantasy to shape your world via consumption decisions. Try “5 whys”ing your way to a more actionable root cause and sharing that message instead of a fragile “Wirecutter revolution”. Pretty cool that we've let ourselves be led into a world where there's a rising private tax on use of "the printing press" and accept the choices that enable monopolizing control in the first place. Buyer's boycotts promote accepting the parameters but rejecting this one bad thing that just happens to be a product of those parameters and leave people exhausted from uninspiring campaigning with questionable impact. Like voting blue (or red whichever you want) harder to try to fix this kind of problem. Speaking practically on topic, I haven't seen any Wirecutter-level consumer awareness campaigns in tech lead to material lasting change against corporate interests. The state of most Wirecutter type coverage of product categories seems to be generally worsening and getting more expensive rather than resulting in consumer-friendly change from market pushback. What you advocate for is essentially a Wirecutter movement and is as radical as Wirecutter is which we can see the underwhelming results of already.
- teddyh 3y ago
  You’re downvoted, but you’re right; “personal carbon footprint”, plastic straws, and boycotts of companies behaving egregiously etc. are all traps to blame individuals for problems caused by other actors. Empowering individuals to solve societal problems rarely work.¹ 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178680
  - otherme123 3y ago
    I can see two different cases here: 1. You are not OK with Shell dumping so much oil in the sea, so you stop buying Shell. But your action doesn't have any effect: you stop buying shell, oil still in the oceans. Boycott isn't the best path, unless it's really massive. 2. You are not OK with HP printer practices, but you don't necesarily want HP to go bankrupt or to pass a law banning HP practices. You just don't buy HP printers and you live happy afterwards. What other people does is not your problem. Boycott works. You can say that HP selling ink subscription doesn't have any externalities, so every individual that buys one of such subscriptions is to blame and they don't shift costs to other people. You have options that keeps you safe from HP practices. Ask any Mac or Linux user how do they feel about Microsoft pushing trackers and ads on their OS: at best they don't care, but probably they laught at it.
    - teddyh 3y ago
      “No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were: any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.” — John Donne, 1623
      - wahnfrieden 3y ago
        Any time I talk politics in HN people always come back when individualist career advice lol like I don’t know there are tricks for some of us to get ahead in this society. Thanks for getting it
andremedeiros 3y ago
This! I have a Brother B&W laser printer/scanner that does exactly what it's supposed to do -- print and scan. It works with CUPS drivers, macOS detects it fine, even Windows. No bloated drivers to install that send a bunch of telemetry shit over to the manufacturer. Mother-in-law needed one too last Christmas, and we ended up getting her a Brother as well, even if the cost was a bit higher than the HP equivalent, purely because of their practices. Vote with your wallet.
bkallus 3y ago
I use a LaserJet 1012 that was thrown out at a local law firm. It's almost 20 years old, and still prints great. I used it through high school, college, and now grad school, and haven't once changed the toner. It's plug and play on Linux, but is a pain to get working on Windows >7. I don't know who still makes decent printers today -- I see a lot of people recommend Brother -- but why buy new when there are tons of cheap old laser printers from the days before they all became anti-consumer garbage?
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
  > but is a pain to get working on Windows >7. For the audience, the key is using the Vista USB drivers from the site. Good thru 10 and I assume 11. > It's plug and play on Linux, Did not know that. Which distro? I have an Arch install that might benefit (from that slow, reliable 1010/1012 slog).
  - bkallus 3y ago
    Arch. I have hplip installed as well, and I'm not sure if that's necessary or not.
Gigachad 3y ago
The best option imo is to just not buy a printer. Use the print service at the local library/office supply store. Its cheaper all things considered and you don't have to deal with shitty hardware.
- kalleboo 3y ago
  Yeah I'm lucky to live in a country where every 7-11 has a multicopier that can print off of a USB drive/SD card. I like to print out small A3 posters for birthdays, but I'd never buy an A3 printer. Occasionally I'll print a photo or two, but it's rare enough that an inkjet would clog. It's very handy.
- calini 3y ago
  You say that, but in the UK, or at least where I live, they started adding a £2 fee per session, on top of the 50p per black and white A4 print (which alone was more than decent). I'm not paying £2.50 for a 1-page document. I checked multiple stores and the Post Office, £2 / £2.30 I think flat fee before they even print you anything.
mhb 3y ago
You mean another tiresome discussion about how techies still don't understand the razor and blade business model of printers and are outraged anew every time someone explains it to them? HP explicitly offers a subscription model of printing in which you can pay by the page. But cue the outrage about (surprise!) why that can't be subverted.

by calini 3y ago

SargeDebian 3y ago

Every single post about printers turns into that and the answer is mostly Brother.

wahnfrieden 3y ago

Neolib fantasy to shape your world via consumption decisions. Try “5 whys”ing your way to a more actionable root cause and sharing that message instead of a fragile “Wirecutter revolution”. Pretty cool that we've let ourselves be led into a world where there's a rising private tax on use of "the printing press" and accept the choices that enable monopolizing control in the first place. Buyer's boycotts promote accepting the parameters but rejecting this one bad thing that just happens to be a product of those parameters and leave people exhausted from uninspiring campaigning with questionable impact. Like voting blue (or red whichever you want) harder to try to fix this kind of problem. Speaking practically on topic, I haven't seen any Wirecutter-level consumer awareness campaigns in tech lead to material lasting change against corporate interests. The state of most Wirecutter type coverage of product categories seems to be generally worsening and getting more expensive rather than resulting in consumer-friendly change from market pushback. What you advocate for is essentially a Wirecutter movement and is as radical as Wirecutter is which we can see the underwhelming results of already.

teddyh 3y ago
You’re downvoted, but you’re right; “personal carbon footprint”, plastic straws, and boycotts of companies behaving egregiously etc. are all traps to blame individuals for problems caused by other actors. Empowering individuals to solve societal problems rarely work.¹ 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178680 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31178680
- otherme123 3y ago
  I can see two different cases here: 1. You are not OK with Shell dumping so much oil in the sea, so you stop buying Shell. But your action doesn't have any effect: you stop buying shell, oil still in the oceans. Boycott isn't the best path, unless it's really massive. 2. You are not OK with HP printer practices, but you don't necesarily want HP to go bankrupt or to pass a law banning HP practices. You just don't buy HP printers and you live happy afterwards. What other people does is not your problem. Boycott works. You can say that HP selling ink subscription doesn't have any externalities, so every individual that buys one of such subscriptions is to blame and they don't shift costs to other people. You have options that keeps you safe from HP practices. Ask any Mac or Linux user how do they feel about Microsoft pushing trackers and ads on their OS: at best they don't care, but probably they laught at it.
  - teddyh 3y ago
    “No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were: any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.” — John Donne, 1623
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      Any time I talk politics in HN people always come back when individualist career advice lol like I don’t know there are tricks for some of us to get ahead in this society. Thanks for getting it

andremedeiros 3y ago

This! I have a Brother B&W laser printer/scanner that does exactly what it's supposed to do -- print and scan. It works with CUPS drivers, macOS detects it fine, even Windows. No bloated drivers to install that send a bunch of telemetry shit over to the manufacturer. Mother-in-law needed one too last Christmas, and we ended up getting her a Brother as well, even if the cost was a bit higher than the HP equivalent, purely because of their practices. Vote with your wallet.

bkallus 3y ago

I use a LaserJet 1012 that was thrown out at a local law firm. It's almost 20 years old, and still prints great. I used it through high school, college, and now grad school, and haven't once changed the toner. It's plug and play on Linux, but is a pain to get working on Windows >7. I don't know who still makes decent printers today -- I see a lot of people recommend Brother -- but why buy new when there are tons of cheap old laser printers from the days before they all became anti-consumer garbage?

WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
> but is a pain to get working on Windows >7. For the audience, the key is using the Vista USB drivers from the site. Good thru 10 and I assume 11. > It's plug and play on Linux, Did not know that. Which distro? I have an Arch install that might benefit (from that slow, reliable 1010/1012 slog).
- bkallus 3y ago
  Arch. I have hplip installed as well, and I'm not sure if that's necessary or not.

Gigachad 3y ago

The best option imo is to just not buy a printer. Use the print service at the local library/office supply store. Its cheaper all things considered and you don't have to deal with shitty hardware.

kalleboo 3y ago
Yeah I'm lucky to live in a country where every 7-11 has a multicopier that can print off of a USB drive/SD card. I like to print out small A3 posters for birthdays, but I'd never buy an A3 printer. Occasionally I'll print a photo or two, but it's rare enough that an inkjet would clog. It's very handy.
calini 3y ago
You say that, but in the UK, or at least where I live, they started adding a £2 fee per session, on top of the 50p per black and white A4 print (which alone was more than decent). I'm not paying £2.50 for a 1-page document. I checked multiple stores and the Post Office, £2 / £2.30 I think flat fee before they even print you anything.

mhb 3y ago

You mean another tiresome discussion about how techies still don't understand the razor and blade business model of printers and are outraged anew every time someone explains it to them? HP explicitly offers a subscription model of printing in which you can pay by the page. But cue the outrage about (surprise!) why that can't be subverted.