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Army is a reflection of the society. For the army to improve radically, the society itself has to learn and improve. If it didn't happen for the last 200 years,

Army is a reflection of the society. For the army to improve radically, the society itself has to learn and improve. If it didn't happen for the last 200 years, why would it happen now?

perceptronas 3y ago
It did happen multiple times. Usually Russians get better after 1 year of war. It seems the same thing is happening again.
Someone 3y ago
Because being shot at and seeing comrades get hit is a strong incentive? Also, do you have an argument as to that “it didn't happen for the last 200 years” claim?
- helge9210 3y ago
  They still don't have running water and indoor sanitary facilities in most of the rural areas.
  - cpursley 3y ago
    Outside of datcha villages (summer/weekend garden houses where people generally don't live full time), this is just total BS. Have you ever visited Russia?
    - thc-27182 3y ago
      Looks like 1-in-5 don't have a flush toilet. https://hromadske.ua/en/posts/russia-is-struggling-with-a-shitty-problem-literally https://hromadske.ua/en/posts/russia-is-struggling-with-a-sh... https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-still-a-pipe-dream-for-20-of-russian-households-reports-say-a65049 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-st...
      - konart 3y ago
        Flush toilet requires your private house to be connected to a centralized communications OR to your personal water pumps. #1 is not an option if you leave far away from a town. #2 is not an option unless you can pay for it and its maintance. I understand that this sound like a problem or some savagery but in reality this is not much different from the fact that most countries do not have centralized hot water or heating. My summer house also does not have a flush toilet despite the fact that I can easily afford one. What's the problem?
        thc-27182 3y ago
        "Located less than 200 kilometers south of Moscow, the industrial city of Tula is home to around 549,992 people. And about a fifth of them have no access to centralized sewage systems." From the first link in my previous comment. Just bringing data to whether or not Russia is well equipped with flush toilets (or really more the point public sanitation). From a public health standpoint, human waste reaching rivers tend not to be good. "Untreated human sewage teems with salmonella, hepatitis, dysentery, cryptosporidium, and many other infectious diseases." https://www.americanrivers.org/threats-solutions/clean-water/sewage-pollution/ https://www.americanrivers.org/threats-solutions/clean-water...
        konart 3y ago
        >Located less than 200 kilometers south of Moscow, the industrial city of Tula is home to around 549,992 people. And about a fifth of them have no access to centralized sewage systems. I really doubt about 1/5 but yes, sure, some parts of Tula look like this: https://st05.realtymag.ru/1911/2023-03-31/0/2101217236877371shd.jpg https://st05.realtymag.ru/1911/2023-03-31/0/2101217236877371... basically a village with no connection to Tula's centralized sewage system. >From a public health standpoint, human waste reaching rivers tend not to be good. It doesn't in most cases. It goes into a hole. By the time it reaches river via ground waters there is literally no problem.
        cpursley 3y ago
        60 million people in America are on septic systems (non-centralized sewage systems that leech into the ground): https://www.growingblue.com/septic-or-sewer/#:~:text=Septics%20serve%20a%20surprisingly%20large,are%20served%20by%20septic%20systems https://www.growingblue.com/septic-or-sewer/#:~:text=Septics....
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    I am from South America, so my experience in Russia was a tourist. But really, This is basically bullshit. Soviet architectural heritage may be depressing sometimes, but one thing they took seriously is infrastructure. I was there for the world cup, and after my country was out of the competition I traveled outside the cities hosting games including some very distant places. Agriculture in Russia is mostly an industrial affair just as in the West, with the usual John Deere dealerships dotting the margin of the roads along with some Chinese and Russian brands I've never heard of before, but that seems to be big there. Of course, I stayed in the western portion of Russia, not even crossing the Urals. It is a gigantic country, and probably as you go east, probably things are more backward. In general, the Russian experience, at least at the time of the world cup was basically the standard European experience for a traveler, things mostly work, the trains are absurdly better than American ones, on the same level as European trains, and at least in the big cities, you can get around speaking English. If you stay in an Airbnb and cook your meals, supermarkets had incredible variety at good prices. Probably some things are worse or a lot worse now with the War Economy and sanctions, but on the other side, it is clear that Putin has been preparing for this for a long time, and export substitution has been going on for a long time. The bottom line is that Russia is not like Elbonia from racist Scott Adams cartoons like so many people think.
  - Someone 3y ago
    That isn’t in any way an argument for the statement you made that Russian society itself did not learn and improve for the last 200 years. You’d have to argue that wasn’t better than it was around 1820.
konart 3y ago
You might want to read at least some books on Russian history and results of the Crimean War specifically. Or chose a number different from 200.
- helge9210 3y ago
  Crimean War was lost. Russian-Japanese War was lost the same way. WWI way lost by Germany, but Russians lost even to Germans. WWII was won as part of the Allies by sacrificing Ukraine and using the extensive support from the US. Looks like a pattern to me.
  - kabouseng 3y ago
    US lost Vietnam war, Korean war, Bay of pigs invasion (attempted Cuba take over), Afghan war (recent one). Looks like a pattern to me...
  - konart 3y ago
    >Crimean War was lost. My point is that the Crimean War resulted in reforms later on.
cpursley 3y ago
Yuri Gagarin and Russia's 99.6% literacy rate disagree. Like it or not, Russians (and Ukrainians for that matter) consistently read and math gooder than Americans.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Russia17 3y ago
  [flagged]
- t_tsonev 3y ago
  You don't need to be a math genius to buy stuff from China.
- helge9210 3y ago
  USSR did run to the finish losing medals to put the first human to space. USA did the same to put humans on the Moon. You can safely ignore these data points as anomalies. Can Russia consistently innovate in any technological field?
  - cpursley 3y ago
    Did you read the article? Russia has objectively (for now, that gap will close) outclassed the west at EW, missile defense & offense. They are also a leader in nuclear technology. Are those not high tech industries?
    - thc-27182 3y ago
      Doesn't really sound all that outclassed. Ukraine has been shooting down a fair bit of Russian attacks and if I'm not mistaken Ukraine has some better ranged munitions now. Hardly seems like being outclassed when Russia has spent the last year redeveloping it's logistics. Additionally this is Russia's best vs the Wests hand-me-downs.
      - 3y ago
gdy 3y ago
The USSR won the WW2 in case you haven't learn that in school.
- AzzieElbab 3y ago
  That “Russia” was called USSR, was supported by the West, and included Ukraine among others. This time Russia’s only ally is Iran.
  - gdy 3y ago
    Unfortunately, the independent Ukraine has been busy destroying monuments to the Ukrainians that fought againsts Nazis and naming dozens of streets after Nazi collaborants.
  - gdy 3y ago
    "This time Russia’s only ally is Iran." This time Russia has nukes and the means to deliver them to any address on this planet.
    - AzzieElbab 3y ago
      So? What targets are they supposed to nuke?
      - gdy 3y ago
        None at the moment, hopefully. At this moment a single nuke would kill more people than died so far in the war.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  School would probably also have noted that 80% of the USSR's copper, 1/3 of its explosives, fuel, trucks, etc. came from the US and UK via Lend-Lease. At a fairly critical time in the war. Zhukov: "People say that the allies didn't help us. But it cannot be denied that the Americans sent us materiel without which we could not have formed our reserves or continued the war. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel? And now they are saying that we had plenty of everything on our own." School might also have noted the complicated history of the USSR and the Nazis; things like the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.
ruskifarmtrl 3y ago
[flagged]

Army is a reflection of the society. For the army to improve radically, the society itself has to learn and improve. If it didn't happen for the last 200 years, why would it happen now?

perceptronas 3y ago

It did happen multiple times. Usually Russians get better after 1 year of war. It seems the same thing is happening again.

Someone 3y ago

Because being shot at and seeing comrades get hit is a strong incentive? Also, do you have an argument as to that “it didn't happen for the last 200 years” claim?

helge9210 3y ago
They still don't have running water and indoor sanitary facilities in most of the rural areas.
- cpursley 3y ago
  Outside of datcha villages (summer/weekend garden houses where people generally don't live full time), this is just total BS. Have you ever visited Russia?
  - thc-27182 3y ago
    Looks like 1-in-5 don't have a flush toilet. https://hromadske.ua/en/posts/russia-is-struggling-with-a-shitty-problem-literally https://hromadske.ua/en/posts/russia-is-struggling-with-a-sh... https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-still-a-pipe-dream-for-20-of-russian-households-reports-say-a65049 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-st...
    - konart 3y ago
      Flush toilet requires your private house to be connected to a centralized communications OR to your personal water pumps. #1 is not an option if you leave far away from a town. #2 is not an option unless you can pay for it and its maintance. I understand that this sound like a problem or some savagery but in reality this is not much different from the fact that most countries do not have centralized hot water or heating. My summer house also does not have a flush toilet despite the fact that I can easily afford one. What's the problem?
      - thc-27182 3y ago
        "Located less than 200 kilometers south of Moscow, the industrial city of Tula is home to around 549,992 people. And about a fifth of them have no access to centralized sewage systems." From the first link in my previous comment. Just bringing data to whether or not Russia is well equipped with flush toilets (or really more the point public sanitation). From a public health standpoint, human waste reaching rivers tend not to be good. "Untreated human sewage teems with salmonella, hepatitis, dysentery, cryptosporidium, and many other infectious diseases." https://www.americanrivers.org/threats-solutions/clean-water/sewage-pollution/ https://www.americanrivers.org/threats-solutions/clean-water...
        konart 3y ago
        >Located less than 200 kilometers south of Moscow, the industrial city of Tula is home to around 549,992 people. And about a fifth of them have no access to centralized sewage systems. I really doubt about 1/5 but yes, sure, some parts of Tula look like this: https://st05.realtymag.ru/1911/2023-03-31/0/2101217236877371shd.jpg https://st05.realtymag.ru/1911/2023-03-31/0/2101217236877371... basically a village with no connection to Tula's centralized sewage system. >From a public health standpoint, human waste reaching rivers tend not to be good. It doesn't in most cases. It goes into a hole. By the time it reaches river via ground waters there is literally no problem.
        cpursley 3y ago
        60 million people in America are on septic systems (non-centralized sewage systems that leech into the ground): https://www.growingblue.com/septic-or-sewer/#:~:text=Septics%20serve%20a%20surprisingly%20large,are%20served%20by%20septic%20systems https://www.growingblue.com/septic-or-sewer/#:~:text=Septics....
- elzbardico 3y ago
  I am from South America, so my experience in Russia was a tourist. But really, This is basically bullshit. Soviet architectural heritage may be depressing sometimes, but one thing they took seriously is infrastructure. I was there for the world cup, and after my country was out of the competition I traveled outside the cities hosting games including some very distant places. Agriculture in Russia is mostly an industrial affair just as in the West, with the usual John Deere dealerships dotting the margin of the roads along with some Chinese and Russian brands I've never heard of before, but that seems to be big there. Of course, I stayed in the western portion of Russia, not even crossing the Urals. It is a gigantic country, and probably as you go east, probably things are more backward. In general, the Russian experience, at least at the time of the world cup was basically the standard European experience for a traveler, things mostly work, the trains are absurdly better than American ones, on the same level as European trains, and at least in the big cities, you can get around speaking English. If you stay in an Airbnb and cook your meals, supermarkets had incredible variety at good prices. Probably some things are worse or a lot worse now with the War Economy and sanctions, but on the other side, it is clear that Putin has been preparing for this for a long time, and export substitution has been going on for a long time. The bottom line is that Russia is not like Elbonia from racist Scott Adams cartoons like so many people think.
- Someone 3y ago
  That isn’t in any way an argument for the statement you made that Russian society itself did not learn and improve for the last 200 years. You’d have to argue that wasn’t better than it was around 1820.

konart 3y ago

You might want to read at least some books on Russian history and results of the Crimean War specifically. Or chose a number different from 200.

helge9210 3y ago
Crimean War was lost. Russian-Japanese War was lost the same way. WWI way lost by Germany, but Russians lost even to Germans. WWII was won as part of the Allies by sacrificing Ukraine and using the extensive support from the US. Looks like a pattern to me.
- kabouseng 3y ago
  US lost Vietnam war, Korean war, Bay of pigs invasion (attempted Cuba take over), Afghan war (recent one). Looks like a pattern to me...
- konart 3y ago
  >Crimean War was lost. My point is that the Crimean War resulted in reforms later on.

cpursley 3y ago

Yuri Gagarin and Russia's 99.6% literacy rate disagree. Like it or not, Russians (and Ukrainians for that matter) consistently read and math gooder than Americans.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Russia17 3y ago
[flagged]
t_tsonev 3y ago
You don't need to be a math genius to buy stuff from China.
helge9210 3y ago
USSR did run to the finish losing medals to put the first human to space. USA did the same to put humans on the Moon. You can safely ignore these data points as anomalies. Can Russia consistently innovate in any technological field?
- cpursley 3y ago
  Did you read the article? Russia has objectively (for now, that gap will close) outclassed the west at EW, missile defense & offense. They are also a leader in nuclear technology. Are those not high tech industries?
  - thc-27182 3y ago
    Doesn't really sound all that outclassed. Ukraine has been shooting down a fair bit of Russian attacks and if I'm not mistaken Ukraine has some better ranged munitions now. Hardly seems like being outclassed when Russia has spent the last year redeveloping it's logistics. Additionally this is Russia's best vs the Wests hand-me-downs.
    - 3y ago

gdy 3y ago

The USSR won the WW2 in case you haven't learn that in school.

AzzieElbab 3y ago
That “Russia” was called USSR, was supported by the West, and included Ukraine among others. This time Russia’s only ally is Iran.
- gdy 3y ago
  Unfortunately, the independent Ukraine has been busy destroying monuments to the Ukrainians that fought againsts Nazis and naming dozens of streets after Nazi collaborants.
- gdy 3y ago
  "This time Russia’s only ally is Iran." This time Russia has nukes and the means to deliver them to any address on this planet.
  - AzzieElbab 3y ago
    So? What targets are they supposed to nuke?
    - gdy 3y ago
      None at the moment, hopefully. At this moment a single nuke would kill more people than died so far in the war.
ceejayoz 3y ago
School would probably also have noted that 80% of the USSR's copper, 1/3 of its explosives, fuel, trucks, etc. came from the US and UK via Lend-Lease. At a fairly critical time in the war. Zhukov: "People say that the allies didn't help us. But it cannot be denied that the Americans sent us materiel without which we could not have formed our reserves or continued the war. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel? And now they are saying that we had plenty of everything on our own." School might also have noted the complicated history of the USSR and the Nazis; things like the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact.

ruskifarmtrl 3y ago

[flagged]