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You can always count on DEI folk to fight with themselves over petty nonsense. Guess that’s what happens when your work isn’t productive so you have find things

You can always count on DEI folk to fight with themselves over petty nonsense. Guess that’s what happens when your work isn’t productive so you have find things to make it look like you’re working. What the hell is even a DEI exec? If you want diversity, that’s something your existing HR head can handle…any DEI executive is a plain grifter. It’s the same sector that produces authors like Ibram Kendi earning hundreds of thousands from their BS books or that BLM foundation founder who spent donations on real estate because, of course, running an organization is not her skill set, it’s grifting.

CoastalCoder 3y ago
> You can always count on DEI folk to fight with themselves over petty nonsense. As an outsider to DEI groups, I've never noticed that kind of infighting. But maybe they just kept it behind closed doors.
- hyperhopper 3y ago
  I previously worked at a very large popular progressive startup. Of hundreds of slack channels one of the few that was private was the "Diversity, equity, and *inclusion*" channel. The fact that it's behind closed doors is all you need to know.
  - seattle_spring 3y ago
    This reminds me of the people who heard that companies like Facebook have a Trust and Safety engineering team, and said something along the lines of: > They’re engineering Trust and manufacturing a facade of safety. The fact that these teams exist is all you need to know. When, in fact, Trust and Safety is an extremely common department for larger organizations to have, and it deals with ensuring the platform is safe and trustworthy. In your case, I wouldn’t at all be surprised that the channel was for DEI volunteers to coordinate events or something along those lines.
  - CoastalCoder 3y ago
    > The fact that it's behind closed doors is all you need to know. I'm one of the least likely persons to defend DEI initiatives. But I could imagine legit reasons for certain DEI channels to be private. E.g., if they're used to discuss potential HR responses to employee complaints.
    - prepend 3y ago
      Is a DEI channel the appropriate place to discuss HR complaints? Wouldn’t HR have a place for that so any surfaced in a DEI channel would be directed to HR. There’s a lot more to DEI than potential complaints and limiting inclusion just to protect that small percentage seems counterproductive.
      - CoastalCoder 3y ago
        > Is a DEI channel the appropriate place to discuss HR complaints? Wouldn’t HR have a place for that so any surfaced in a DEI channel would be directed to HR. It's certainly plausible. FWIW, I wasn't sure that the aforementioned DEI channel had a good reason for being private. I was just responding to the "that's all I need to know" assertion.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
rob74 3y ago
> If you want diversity, that’s something your existing HR head can handle If your existing HR head has been handling it for years, and you still haven't made any significant progress, appointing a person in charge of DEI is something that the CEO does to be able to say "hey, we're doing something about it".
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  Where "significant progress" is defined as... DEI goals are so vague as to be non-existent which make it possible to continue to use DEI as a moniker on the path towards ideological obedience.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    Obedience towards what ideology?
    - the_third_wave 3y ago
      Clearly the one pushing for the adoption of DEI. Call it "The Ideology Which Shall Not Be Named" if you please although that hardly makes for a good acronym - too many consonants. If you are really interested in where this all comes from I'd suggest perusing James Lindsay's New Discourses which is centred around this subject. DEI finds its origin in Critical Social Justice which in its turn is an offshoot from "Theory" [1], short for "critical [2] postmodern theory". New Discourses is full of references which makes it possible to trace back anything found there to its source - which is more or less all that Lindsay does, he starts at some academic utterance related to this subject and traces the references back to their roots. [1] https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-theory/ https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-theory/ [2] https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-critical/ https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-critical/
      - shadowgovt 3y ago
        The guy who refers to the Pride flag as "the flag of a hostile enemy?" No thanks.
hotpotamus 3y ago
> You can always count on DEI folk to fight with themselves over petty nonsense. I'd look at the spaces vs tabs or text editor conflicts as a sign that this behavior is not limited to DEI folk.
- philippejara 3y ago
  Nobody is getting suspended or fired over a spaces vs tab or vi vs emacs discussion.
  - prepend 3y ago
    But they should. I really don’t feel safe around tabbers and the fear that someone could just lint my code at any time has me literally shaking.
prepend 3y ago
I think a large perceived benefit of a DEI officer is to increase the number of officers and thus improve the desired demographic ratios among officers. I think DEI is critically important for organizations as missing out of ideas because someone is discriminated against is a disadvantage for the organization. But I think this is really hard and threatens people in their positions who don’t want to be fired and don’t want to lose hiring authority. So lots of superficial things are done (like hiring DEI officers and lots of training). I think it’s much harder to change culture and think that people need to internalize and adapt rather than having ineffective and distracting policies (eg, every position must interview one minority or every department must have a minority leader, etc ).
usrusr 3y ago
Why have people with a job description that's explicitly about information security, when that should be everyone's responsibility, right? The reality is that some concern just won't ever be considered at all unless you put someone explicitly in charge and supply them with enough formal rank that they can't be ignored, as they inevitably would be without.
- oneTbrain23 3y ago
  Doubt so. Many employees dont know even how to write VBA macros even though they use Excel for decade (I have bosses superb at Excel and PPT use but just not at VBA macros level). IT is harder than you think most employees arent that smart to be able to self learn IT stuff because it has real brain burner technical stuff. DEI lacks any technical competencies. Mostly just aggregates of opinions bundled as "scientific research" in social studies faculties around worldwide unis. You should use other examples. Information security is clearly not good example to illustrate your point.
AaronLasseigne 3y ago
I suspect it's a bit like the security field. Some are useful and bring value. Some are hired so when something goes wrong there's a person to blame and a head to axe.

CoastalCoder 3y ago

> You can always count on DEI folk to fight with themselves over petty nonsense. As an outsider to DEI groups, I've never noticed that kind of infighting. But maybe they just kept it behind closed doors.

hyperhopper 3y ago
I previously worked at a very large popular progressive startup. Of hundreds of slack channels one of the few that was private was the "Diversity, equity, and *inclusion*" channel. The fact that it's behind closed doors is all you need to know.
- seattle_spring 3y ago
  This reminds me of the people who heard that companies like Facebook have a Trust and Safety engineering team, and said something along the lines of: > They’re engineering Trust and manufacturing a facade of safety. The fact that these teams exist is all you need to know. When, in fact, Trust and Safety is an extremely common department for larger organizations to have, and it deals with ensuring the platform is safe and trustworthy. In your case, I wouldn’t at all be surprised that the channel was for DEI volunteers to coordinate events or something along those lines.
- CoastalCoder 3y ago
  > The fact that it's behind closed doors is all you need to know. I'm one of the least likely persons to defend DEI initiatives. But I could imagine legit reasons for certain DEI channels to be private. E.g., if they're used to discuss potential HR responses to employee complaints.
  - prepend 3y ago
    Is a DEI channel the appropriate place to discuss HR complaints? Wouldn’t HR have a place for that so any surfaced in a DEI channel would be directed to HR. There’s a lot more to DEI than potential complaints and limiting inclusion just to protect that small percentage seems counterproductive.
    - CoastalCoder 3y ago
      > Is a DEI channel the appropriate place to discuss HR complaints? Wouldn’t HR have a place for that so any surfaced in a DEI channel would be directed to HR. It's certainly plausible. FWIW, I wasn't sure that the aforementioned DEI channel had a good reason for being private. I was just responding to the "that's all I need to know" assertion.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

rob74 3y ago

> If you want diversity, that’s something your existing HR head can handle If your existing HR head has been handling it for years, and you still haven't made any significant progress, appointing a person in charge of DEI is something that the CEO does to be able to say "hey, we're doing something about it".

the_third_wave 3y ago
Where "significant progress" is defined as... DEI goals are so vague as to be non-existent which make it possible to continue to use DEI as a moniker on the path towards ideological obedience.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  Obedience towards what ideology?
  - the_third_wave 3y ago
    Clearly the one pushing for the adoption of DEI. Call it "The Ideology Which Shall Not Be Named" if you please although that hardly makes for a good acronym - too many consonants. If you are really interested in where this all comes from I'd suggest perusing James Lindsay's New Discourses which is centred around this subject. DEI finds its origin in Critical Social Justice which in its turn is an offshoot from "Theory" [1], short for "critical [2] postmodern theory". New Discourses is full of references which makes it possible to trace back anything found there to its source - which is more or less all that Lindsay does, he starts at some academic utterance related to this subject and traces the references back to their roots. [1] https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-theory/ https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-theory/ [2] https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-critical/ https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-critical/
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
      The guy who refers to the Pride flag as "the flag of a hostile enemy?" No thanks.

hotpotamus 3y ago

> You can always count on DEI folk to fight with themselves over petty nonsense. I'd look at the spaces vs tabs or text editor conflicts as a sign that this behavior is not limited to DEI folk.

philippejara 3y ago
Nobody is getting suspended or fired over a spaces vs tab or vi vs emacs discussion.
- prepend 3y ago
  But they should. I really don’t feel safe around tabbers and the fear that someone could just lint my code at any time has me literally shaking.

prepend 3y ago

I think a large perceived benefit of a DEI officer is to increase the number of officers and thus improve the desired demographic ratios among officers. I think DEI is critically important for organizations as missing out of ideas because someone is discriminated against is a disadvantage for the organization. But I think this is really hard and threatens people in their positions who don’t want to be fired and don’t want to lose hiring authority. So lots of superficial things are done (like hiring DEI officers and lots of training). I think it’s much harder to change culture and think that people need to internalize and adapt rather than having ineffective and distracting policies (eg, every position must interview one minority or every department must have a minority leader, etc ).

usrusr 3y ago

Why have people with a job description that's explicitly about information security, when that should be everyone's responsibility, right? The reality is that some concern just won't ever be considered at all unless you put someone explicitly in charge and supply them with enough formal rank that they can't be ignored, as they inevitably would be without.

oneTbrain23 3y ago
Doubt so. Many employees dont know even how to write VBA macros even though they use Excel for decade (I have bosses superb at Excel and PPT use but just not at VBA macros level). IT is harder than you think most employees arent that smart to be able to self learn IT stuff because it has real brain burner technical stuff. DEI lacks any technical competencies. Mostly just aggregates of opinions bundled as "scientific research" in social studies faculties around worldwide unis. You should use other examples. Information security is clearly not good example to illustrate your point.

AaronLasseigne 3y ago

I suspect it's a bit like the security field. Some are useful and bring value. Some are hired so when something goes wrong there's a person to blame and a head to axe.