5 ms·

Nvidia, Rolls-Royce Announce Quantum Computing Breakthrough for CFD in Jets

kumarvvr 3y ago
I am a complete noob w.r.t. Quantum computing, but how exactly does Quantum computing help with Computational Fluid Dynamics? Isn't CFD an issue of efficient parallel computation and scaling of computing resources?
- simiones 3y ago
  There are certain classes of problems where (theoretical) QCs show an exponential speed-up over classical computers. These generally have to do with certain statistical properties of (theoretical) qbits (mainly related to the stronger-than-classical correlations between measurements on entangled particles, as far as I understand). Note that I'm only saying theoretical QCs since no actually realized QC has been complex enough to show these speed-ups in a way that convinces everyone (though Google's device has shown a speed-up that is hard to argue with). However, it's important to note that any proof that physically-realized QCs wouldn't actually show these speed-ups would be a monumental discovery in quantum mechanics, as it would represent proof that quantum mechanics is wrong.
  - bawolff 3y ago
    Yeah, but is this one of them? The press release is missing what the (theoretical) big-oh would be or any other discussion of what the expected performance gain would be, even in the best case.
    - xmcqdpt2 3y ago
      Likely this is an application of the Quantum Fourier Transform, which is O(n^2) where the classical analogue would be O(2^n) for n qubits. It's important to note as a caveat that no currently existing quantum computers are anywhere near good enough to implement such a deep circuit.
      - bawolff 3y ago
        Is there a reason to assume that beyond QFT being famous?
        xmcqdpt2 3y ago
        Fourier methods are pretty common in PDEs and the QFT is the core ingredient of many quantum computing algos, such as the quantum phase estimation algorithm used to find eigenvectors (such as modes of wave equations) or the HHL algorithm used to solve linear systems of equations (for example linearized PDE). Let's check the literature though, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41534-020-00291-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41534-020-00291-0 So apparently there are also quantum lattice gas models used for this, I know very little about those, but all the other methods are QFT based.
phonebucket 3y ago
What is the breakthrough? There is no mention of the problem solved, nor the accuracy of the quantum solution, nor the amount of classical computing resources needed for a non-quantum solution. The engineering probably has some cool novelty: 39 qubit and 10 million layers is a very large circuit. But simulating a large circuit is very different to achieving a quantum computing breakthrough in CFD.
sgt101 3y ago
TLDR - this is being run on GPU's to "prepare for the quantum future".
- Aardwolf 3y ago
  So, if I understand correctly: Not Quantum.
  - sgt101 3y ago
    it's a sim of Quantum processes. If a QC could be made to run for 2^20 (ish) longer and to have 2^3 better quality than SOTA then they could do this on it. That would be great because it would run in about 10 seconds, which I assume is much quicker than the run time on GPU's (although the article doesn't make that clear). Also we have to solve the (not so famous) it-takes-2-days-to-turn-the-f-thing-on problem of QC, and also the the-f-thing-costs-a-fortune issue also. But apart from this being technologically out of reach for 70 years it's absolutely a great and important result.
    - bawolff 3y ago
      > If a QC could be made to run for 2^20 (ish) longer and to have 2^3 better quality than SOTA then they could do this on it In essence, if a breakthrough happened it would be a breakthrough.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- moonchrome 3y ago
  nVidia taking a side bet in case AI hype deflates and their consumer sales start sagging.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    I don't think NV sales sagging will happen any time soon. It's more of a case of moving a small amount of product at once and getting their name in the press than that it is a side bet. Note that if QC does take off NVidia won't be taking any of that cake because they are simulating what it would be like to have such a computer and if they would have one they wouldn't need GPUs to pretend they do. From a technical perspective this if for NVidia not much different from any other HPC sale.
LatteLazy 3y ago
5 years ago we were on the verge of a working, scalable quantum computer. After 5 years of "breakthroughs" we are now about 10 years away from such a device. And any company who associates themselves with this vapourware crap just looks fraudulent...
- Maken 3y ago
  We are truly on the verge of quantum computers powered by fusion reactors.
  - LatteLazy 3y ago
    Running a general AI and self driving with reusable rockets!
    - JohnCClarke 3y ago
      Indeed we are. Escpecially since we are now starting to get serious about using that big fusion reactor that just floats in the sky every day.
- bawolff 3y ago
  5 years ago we were no where near that. The only people who claimed we were, were trying to sell scammy things with quantum in the name. Quantum computing is making slow progress. It is a marathon not a sprint.
  - LatteLazy 3y ago
    Google and New Scientist claimed Quantum Supremacy in 2019. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2217347-google-claims-it-has-finally-reached-quantum-supremacy/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2217347-google-claims-i... Not sure what they have been doing with it since. Maybe everyone on that team has been on holiday? And that massive breakthrough we are discussing here is actual not quantum at all...
    - 3y ago
zzbn00 3y ago
This press release is simply there to prop up the ISC '23 conference and participants and research projects there. Really don't know if its a good way of doing that.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
olliej 3y ago
Ok, so I'm not sure what here _really_ benefited from a quantum computer. I recognize that most folk on HN are concerned about QC applied to exact solutions (which realistically just means breaking crypto), but I'm more interested in QC for analog problem solving. A real issue you have with digital computers is that they are fundamentally discrete. This means emulating or simulating analog systems (aka the real world) devolves to re-running the same simulation innumerable times and then basically averaging them. The benefit of a QC is that you _should_, in an idealized world, require many fewer runs to get an accurate final representation of the result. If you go to YouTube you can find many examples of analog computers - often artillery and similar - and I think QC have the potential to offer some real gains in scientific computing by making it possible to create programmable analog computers which haven't really existed in the past.
- __alexs 3y ago
  > Ok, so I'm not sure what here _really_ benefited from a quantum computer. No quantum computers were harmed (or even directly involved) in the making of this press release. It's a simulation.
villgax 3y ago
Where is the generative CAD design tool with constraints??
fancyfredbot 3y ago
This press release is uncomfortably close to the border between misleading and fraudulent. It's fairly harmless hype I guess, but claiming a breakthrough involving the world's largest quantum circuit when no quantum circuit has been built is just horrible. I'm not sure I could write this kind of stuff with a good conscience. Rolls-Royce and Nvidia are great companies who are genuinely innovative, it must be awful for the employees who work on the real innovations to read this stuff.

I am a complete noob w.r.t. Quantum computing, but how exactly does Quantum computing help with Computational Fluid Dynamics? Isn't CFD an issue of efficient parallel computation and scaling of computing resources?

simiones 3y ago
There are certain classes of problems where (theoretical) QCs show an exponential speed-up over classical computers. These generally have to do with certain statistical properties of (theoretical) qbits (mainly related to the stronger-than-classical correlations between measurements on entangled particles, as far as I understand). Note that I'm only saying theoretical QCs since no actually realized QC has been complex enough to show these speed-ups in a way that convinces everyone (though Google's device has shown a speed-up that is hard to argue with). However, it's important to note that any proof that physically-realized QCs wouldn't actually show these speed-ups would be a monumental discovery in quantum mechanics, as it would represent proof that quantum mechanics is wrong.
- bawolff 3y ago
  Yeah, but is this one of them? The press release is missing what the (theoretical) big-oh would be or any other discussion of what the expected performance gain would be, even in the best case.
  - xmcqdpt2 3y ago
    Likely this is an application of the Quantum Fourier Transform, which is O(n^2) where the classical analogue would be O(2^n) for n qubits. It's important to note as a caveat that no currently existing quantum computers are anywhere near good enough to implement such a deep circuit.
    - bawolff 3y ago
      Is there a reason to assume that beyond QFT being famous?
      - xmcqdpt2 3y ago
        Fourier methods are pretty common in PDEs and the QFT is the core ingredient of many quantum computing algos, such as the quantum phase estimation algorithm used to find eigenvectors (such as modes of wave equations) or the HHL algorithm used to solve linear systems of equations (for example linearized PDE). Let's check the literature though, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41534-020-00291-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41534-020-00291-0 So apparently there are also quantum lattice gas models used for this, I know very little about those, but all the other methods are QFT based.

phonebucket 3y ago

What is the breakthrough? There is no mention of the problem solved, nor the accuracy of the quantum solution, nor the amount of classical computing resources needed for a non-quantum solution. The engineering probably has some cool novelty: 39 qubit and 10 million layers is a very large circuit. But simulating a large circuit is very different to achieving a quantum computing breakthrough in CFD.

sgt101 3y ago

TLDR - this is being run on GPU's to "prepare for the quantum future".

Aardwolf 3y ago
So, if I understand correctly: Not Quantum.
- sgt101 3y ago
  it's a sim of Quantum processes. If a QC could be made to run for 2^20 (ish) longer and to have 2^3 better quality than SOTA then they could do this on it. That would be great because it would run in about 10 seconds, which I assume is much quicker than the run time on GPU's (although the article doesn't make that clear). Also we have to solve the (not so famous) it-takes-2-days-to-turn-the-f-thing-on problem of QC, and also the the-f-thing-costs-a-fortune issue also. But apart from this being technologically out of reach for 70 years it's absolutely a great and important result.
  - bawolff 3y ago
    > If a QC could be made to run for 2^20 (ish) longer and to have 2^3 better quality than SOTA then they could do this on it In essence, if a breakthrough happened it would be a breakthrough.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
moonchrome 3y ago
nVidia taking a side bet in case AI hype deflates and their consumer sales start sagging.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  I don't think NV sales sagging will happen any time soon. It's more of a case of moving a small amount of product at once and getting their name in the press than that it is a side bet. Note that if QC does take off NVidia won't be taking any of that cake because they are simulating what it would be like to have such a computer and if they would have one they wouldn't need GPUs to pretend they do. From a technical perspective this if for NVidia not much different from any other HPC sale.

LatteLazy 3y ago

5 years ago we were on the verge of a working, scalable quantum computer. After 5 years of "breakthroughs" we are now about 10 years away from such a device. And any company who associates themselves with this vapourware crap just looks fraudulent...

Maken 3y ago
We are truly on the verge of quantum computers powered by fusion reactors.
- LatteLazy 3y ago
  Running a general AI and self driving with reusable rockets!
  - JohnCClarke 3y ago
    Indeed we are. Escpecially since we are now starting to get serious about using that big fusion reactor that just floats in the sky every day.
bawolff 3y ago
5 years ago we were no where near that. The only people who claimed we were, were trying to sell scammy things with quantum in the name. Quantum computing is making slow progress. It is a marathon not a sprint.
- LatteLazy 3y ago
  Google and New Scientist claimed Quantum Supremacy in 2019. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2217347-google-claims-it-has-finally-reached-quantum-supremacy/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2217347-google-claims-i... Not sure what they have been doing with it since. Maybe everyone on that team has been on holiday? And that massive breakthrough we are discussing here is actual not quantum at all...
  - 3y ago

zzbn00 3y ago

This press release is simply there to prop up the ISC '23 conference and participants and research projects there. Really don't know if its a good way of doing that.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

olliej 3y ago

Ok, so I'm not sure what here _really_ benefited from a quantum computer. I recognize that most folk on HN are concerned about QC applied to exact solutions (which realistically just means breaking crypto), but I'm more interested in QC for analog problem solving. A real issue you have with digital computers is that they are fundamentally discrete. This means emulating or simulating analog systems (aka the real world) devolves to re-running the same simulation innumerable times and then basically averaging them. The benefit of a QC is that you _should_, in an idealized world, require many fewer runs to get an accurate final representation of the result. If you go to YouTube you can find many examples of analog computers - often artillery and similar - and I think QC have the potential to offer some real gains in scientific computing by making it possible to create programmable analog computers which haven't really existed in the past.

__alexs 3y ago
> Ok, so I'm not sure what here _really_ benefited from a quantum computer. No quantum computers were harmed (or even directly involved) in the making of this press release. It's a simulation.

villgax 3y ago

Where is the generative CAD design tool with constraints??

fancyfredbot 3y ago

This press release is uncomfortably close to the border between misleading and fraudulent. It's fairly harmless hype I guess, but claiming a breakthrough involving the world's largest quantum circuit when no quantum circuit has been built is just horrible. I'm not sure I could write this kind of stuff with a good conscience. Rolls-Royce and Nvidia are great companies who are genuinely innovative, it must be awful for the employees who work on the real innovations to read this stuff.