5 ms·

Why is it not better for Apple to make Swift truly cross-platform? Is it just that the maintenance cost is not worth it? Or would it threaten its ecosystem in

by nequo 3y ago

Why is it not better for Apple to make Swift truly cross-platform? Is it just that the maintenance cost is not worth it? Or would it threaten its ecosystem in a way that I don't understand? It would seem that making Swift cross-platform would make Apple's ecosystem more accessible to developers. The barrier to entry would be lower if developers only needed to learn the APIs and not a whole new language and its tooling too. This would help the ecosystem stay healthy for a longer time.

pca006132 3y ago
I thought Apple just wants to be different, and making Switft not cross platform can make porting software on Apple ecosystem harder...
w10-1 3y ago
The Swift compiler and standard library are pretty tightly linked. The Swift type system is getting pretty complicated already, handling a whole range of lifetimes, async, the combination of protocols, generics, existentials, etc. with some magic handling for arrays and maps in the library. So the cost of cross-platform effort would be significant. The greatest barrier to entry is XCode. It's archaic, impossible to extend, and has a very wide surface that would overwhelm any development team. (Java works fine on macOS, but developers want to deploy to iOS.)
- delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
  .NET MAUI[1] and AvaloniaUI[2] run on iOS pretty well, and one can use Rider/VS Code/other editors to develop apps. [1]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/cli https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/cli [2]: https://docs.avaloniaui.net/tutorials/developing-for-mobile/ios/build-and-run-your-application-on-a-simulator https://docs.avaloniaui.net/tutorials/developing-for-mobile/...
  - scns 3y ago
    Hope this keeps getting investment and support by Microsoft. Choice and competition are very welcome, even though i code neither iPhone Apps nor C# ATM.
- ohgodplsno 3y ago
  Kotlin/Native deploys and works on iOS, but due to Apple holding back on opening up Swift, it has to do everything through ObjC interop. But make no mistake, to Apple, that's a feature: if other languages have a hard time integrating in their ecosystem, they'll go away.
MattRix 3y ago
Apple’s problem has never been the “barrier to entry”. They know developers will make apps for their platform no matter what. If Swift becomes more universal it makes it easier for Apple developers to also develop for Android (etc) which Apple would see as a bad thing.
- worrycue 3y ago
  Wouldn't developers also develop for Android no matter what?
  - raydev 3y ago
    Not as long as iOS users spend more money on average.
  - qwytw 3y ago
    There are still some iOS (and especially macOS) specific apps because the cost of porting a native app is not insignificant.
  - scns 3y ago
    Some Apps are exlusive to iOs and some start out there, because that is where the money is.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  That has only really been the case for iOS and even then it’s not necessarily a given.

by nequo 3y ago

pca006132 3y ago

I thought Apple just wants to be different, and making Switft not cross platform can make porting software on Apple ecosystem harder...

w10-1 3y ago

The Swift compiler and standard library are pretty tightly linked. The Swift type system is getting pretty complicated already, handling a whole range of lifetimes, async, the combination of protocols, generics, existentials, etc. with some magic handling for arrays and maps in the library. So the cost of cross-platform effort would be significant. The greatest barrier to entry is XCode. It's archaic, impossible to extend, and has a very wide surface that would overwhelm any development team. (Java works fine on macOS, but developers want to deploy to iOS.)

delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
.NET MAUI[1] and AvaloniaUI[2] run on iOS pretty well, and one can use Rider/VS Code/other editors to develop apps. [1]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/cli https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/cli [2]: https://docs.avaloniaui.net/tutorials/developing-for-mobile/ios/build-and-run-your-application-on-a-simulator https://docs.avaloniaui.net/tutorials/developing-for-mobile/...
- scns 3y ago
  Hope this keeps getting investment and support by Microsoft. Choice and competition are very welcome, even though i code neither iPhone Apps nor C# ATM.
ohgodplsno 3y ago
Kotlin/Native deploys and works on iOS, but due to Apple holding back on opening up Swift, it has to do everything through ObjC interop. But make no mistake, to Apple, that's a feature: if other languages have a hard time integrating in their ecosystem, they'll go away.

MattRix 3y ago

Apple’s problem has never been the “barrier to entry”. They know developers will make apps for their platform no matter what. If Swift becomes more universal it makes it easier for Apple developers to also develop for Android (etc) which Apple would see as a bad thing.

worrycue 3y ago
Wouldn't developers also develop for Android no matter what?
- raydev 3y ago
  Not as long as iOS users spend more money on average.
- qwytw 3y ago
  There are still some iOS (and especially macOS) specific apps because the cost of porting a native app is not insignificant.
- scns 3y ago
  Some Apps are exlusive to iOs and some start out there, because that is where the money is.
saagarjha 3y ago
That has only really been the case for iOS and even then it’s not necessarily a given.