7 ms·

If they just had a proper cross platform standard library and package manager it might be more successful, it is a pretty cool language. But the north Korean es

If they just had a proper cross platform standard library and package manager it might be more successful, it is a pretty cool language. But the north Korean esque closed apple ecosystem makes that impossible, all of that is intentional.

pilif 3y ago
The package manager has been open source, cross platform and available since pretty much from the start. The standard library is becoming cross-platform as we discuss it here.
- realusername 3y ago
  > The standard library is becoming cross-platform as we discuss it here. I'd argue that it's too late already, the ship has sailed, Swift is heading the same way as C#.
  - qaq 3y ago
    Is there an alternative with similar features and ergonomics? I am def. not aware of one.
    - realusername 3y ago
      For which purpose? It depends what you want to do with it.
      - qaq 3y ago
        Well lang features do not really depend on the purpose the 3d party libs do. Let's say the purpose is web services.
        realusername 3y ago
        I doubt the web story in swift is that strong anyways, I'd pick python, ruby or php.
  - ohgodplsno 3y ago
    I'm having a hard time seeing Swift becoming a well-respected and easily considered language for your next project. The sheer lack of anything outside of what Apple has made already makes it a non starter. In comparison, .Net is absolutely amazing.
nequo 3y ago
Why is it not better for Apple to make Swift truly cross-platform? Is it just that the maintenance cost is not worth it? Or would it threaten its ecosystem in a way that I don't understand? It would seem that making Swift cross-platform would make Apple's ecosystem more accessible to developers. The barrier to entry would be lower if developers only needed to learn the APIs and not a whole new language and its tooling too. This would help the ecosystem stay healthy for a longer time.
- pca006132 3y ago
  I thought Apple just wants to be different, and making Switft not cross platform can make porting software on Apple ecosystem harder...
- w10-1 3y ago
  The Swift compiler and standard library are pretty tightly linked. The Swift type system is getting pretty complicated already, handling a whole range of lifetimes, async, the combination of protocols, generics, existentials, etc. with some magic handling for arrays and maps in the library. So the cost of cross-platform effort would be significant. The greatest barrier to entry is XCode. It's archaic, impossible to extend, and has a very wide surface that would overwhelm any development team. (Java works fine on macOS, but developers want to deploy to iOS.)
  - delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
    .NET MAUI[1] and AvaloniaUI[2] run on iOS pretty well, and one can use Rider/VS Code/other editors to develop apps. [1]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/cli https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/cli [2]: https://docs.avaloniaui.net/tutorials/developing-for-mobile/ios/build-and-run-your-application-on-a-simulator https://docs.avaloniaui.net/tutorials/developing-for-mobile/...
    - scns 3y ago
      Hope this keeps getting investment and support by Microsoft. Choice and competition are very welcome, even though i code neither iPhone Apps nor C# ATM.

pilif 3y ago

The package manager has been open source, cross platform and available since pretty much from the start. The standard library is becoming cross-platform as we discuss it here.

realusername 3y ago
> The standard library is becoming cross-platform as we discuss it here. I'd argue that it's too late already, the ship has sailed, Swift is heading the same way as C#.
- qaq 3y ago
  Is there an alternative with similar features and ergonomics? I am def. not aware of one.
  - realusername 3y ago
    For which purpose? It depends what you want to do with it.
    - qaq 3y ago
      Well lang features do not really depend on the purpose the 3d party libs do. Let's say the purpose is web services.
      - realusername 3y ago
        I doubt the web story in swift is that strong anyways, I'd pick python, ruby or php.
- ohgodplsno 3y ago
  I'm having a hard time seeing Swift becoming a well-respected and easily considered language for your next project. The sheer lack of anything outside of what Apple has made already makes it a non starter. In comparison, .Net is absolutely amazing.

nequo 3y ago

Why is it not better for Apple to make Swift truly cross-platform? Is it just that the maintenance cost is not worth it? Or would it threaten its ecosystem in a way that I don't understand? It would seem that making Swift cross-platform would make Apple's ecosystem more accessible to developers. The barrier to entry would be lower if developers only needed to learn the APIs and not a whole new language and its tooling too. This would help the ecosystem stay healthy for a longer time.

pca006132 3y ago
I thought Apple just wants to be different, and making Switft not cross platform can make porting software on Apple ecosystem harder...
w10-1 3y ago
The Swift compiler and standard library are pretty tightly linked. The Swift type system is getting pretty complicated already, handling a whole range of lifetimes, async, the combination of protocols, generics, existentials, etc. with some magic handling for arrays and maps in the library. So the cost of cross-platform effort would be significant. The greatest barrier to entry is XCode. It's archaic, impossible to extend, and has a very wide surface that would overwhelm any development team. (Java works fine on macOS, but developers want to deploy to iOS.)
- delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
  .NET MAUI[1] and AvaloniaUI[2] run on iOS pretty well, and one can use Rider/VS Code/other editors to develop apps. [1]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/cli https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/maui/ios/cli [2]: https://docs.avaloniaui.net/tutorials/developing-for-mobile/ios/build-and-run-your-application-on-a-simulator https://docs.avaloniaui.net/tutorials/developing-for-mobile/...
  - scns 3y ago
    Hope this keeps getting investment and support by Microsoft. Choice and competition are very welcome, even though i code neither iPhone Apps nor C# ATM.