9 ms·

This is a game that came out in 1999! More than 20 years later there have been two remakes, there's still a huge and healthy community and a thriving pro scene.

by kayson 3y ago

This is a game that came out in 1999! More than 20 years later there have been two remakes, there's still a huge and healthy community and a thriving pro scene. And now someone is using relatively cutting edge image AI to mod the sprites. It's crazy to me how some of these old games have such staying power (Super Smash Bros Melee is another that comes to mind).

biohax2015 3y ago
Tetris on the NES still has massive tournaments. It’s pretty interesting to watch these super-young games (relative to chess, tennis, etc.) mature and develop as genuine fields of competition.
hot_gril 3y ago
The even crazier thing is card or board games that are still alive and modernized. Some games are timeless.
- eru 3y ago
  Many of the best board games are less than twenty years old. Cardboard based entertainment has made huge strides recently. By and large, good boardgames are not so much timeless as 'fairly new' instead. There have been a few good games earlier, but it's really instructive to have a look at the ranked list of boardgames at https://boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame https://boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame and check the publication dates.
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    One problem I have with the rankings here is they seem really prone to grade inflation and band-wagoning. Even more-so when the game is expensive.
    - eru 3y ago
      Yes. And they are also just aggregates of what people think. They aren't God given absolute quality judgements. Yet, even with all the caveats, it's still remarkable how much better boardgames have gotten.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        > They aren't God given absolute quality judgements. This seems a bit of a high bar to make only one review site have to clear.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      The BGG rankings are a particular viewpoint into a general take on board games; the way I look at it - anything high ranked is going to be "good" even if I don't particular like the play style, theme, or execution. Many are "good but not for me". The problem with the rankings is that some very playable games are ranked low. It's a meme on BGG but CandyLand is famously shit on: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5048/candy-land https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5048/candy-land - but it's a perfectly acceptable "game" for very young children, and if you've ever dealt with said children you know that getting them to successfully complete a CandyLand session without going backwards on the track, randomly wandering off, taking multiple cards, etc is a serious feat. It's not a great game but it's certainly still playable in the niche it occupies.
      - eru 3y ago
        Candyland might be an ok game for young children, but there are certainly better games for that niche, too. Just like Risk can be an entertaining game, but it's far from the most entertaining game you could play during that time.
      - hot_gril 3y ago
        Yeah, I've heard of very few of the top ones, and they look like the super complex kind of games I don't play. I did play Pandemic Legacy and didn't like it. Then I cmd+F'd for Diplomacy, Catan, and chess on the top list, didn't see them, and said nah.
        eru 3y ago
        Catan isn't actually all that great (and I say that as someone who bought his set back in 1995). We have much better games these days. Stripped of its cultural significance, chess isn't that great either for a general audience. It suffers from analysis paralysis. I would only recommend it to a niche audience. I love Diplomacy; I played many games over email, in person and even participated in the German Diplomacy championship (face-to-face) back in the 2000s. Yet, it's also a very niche game, and I can see why some people would rate it low. I actually prefer the game over email, because it gives you more time to think, sending emails resembles the telegraphs of the early 20th century and I am less likely to burn out from a months long game with one move every few days than one very intense day of face-to-face play. Btw, if you like Diplomacy, I recommend playing on the 1900 map variant. It's basically an improved version of the standard map. See http://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Online/variants/1900-GG.pdf http://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Online/variants/1900-GG.pdf Or for further reading https://diplomacygames.com/baron-von-powell-creator-of-1900/ https://diplomacygames.com/baron-von-powell-creator-of-1900/ or http://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Zine/F2007M/Roburn/1900.htm http://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Zine/F2007M/Roburn/1900.htm
  - stOneskull 3y ago
    wow, i had no idea there were so many boardgames.. i looked to see where my old favorite Talisman was and it's ranked #1764! jeez..
    - eru 3y ago
      That's actually pretty high.
bombcar 3y ago
Heroes III has something similar, with major mods being developed along with entirely new "replacement" game engines.
EamonnMR 3y ago
The staying power makes me feel kind of sad, because it represents a lack of vitality... they've cleared the local space, like some sort of planetoid, and newcomers have little chance.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  The Real Time Strategy (RTS) genre more or less died in the mid 2000s with Age of Empires II, Warcraft 3, and Starcraft being the ones that left a mark. Since that time: Warcraft 3 died; Starcraft was supplanted by Starcraft 2 and both eventually died outside of the lucrative Korean pro scene. Age of Empires II also died until it saw a resurrection in the pro scene in the early 2010s which has lasted to today. The RTS genre itself is still very much dead, seeing no new games worthy of note to this day.
  - yenda 3y ago
    I loved empire earth II as well
  - r0uv3n 3y ago
    There is the free and open source Beyond All Reason (BAR) inspired by Total Annihilation, which is very polished and a lot of fun. It's got features I've not seen anywhere else yet (in terms of possibilities for commands and customisation) and also has a growing competitive scene. It's worth checking out
  - JSavageOne 3y ago
    Which is a damn shame because RTS games are my favorite genre, with Age of Empires 2 and Warcraft 3 being my favorite games of all time. It's really a shame to me that the most popular multiplayer games these days seem to be FPS games, or games where you just control a single character. Don't get me wrong those games can still be fun, but they entail a fraction of the strategy as RTS games. I hope one day we'll see a resurgence of the RTS genre.
  - rasz 3y ago
    'Beyond All Reason' regularly ranks second place behind SC2 on Twitch.
spaceman_2020 3y ago
The crazy part is that some of the players who dominated the multiplayer scene in 2000 are still playing…and dominating. TheViper regularly streams his matches. Surreal watching them cause I remember playing against him (and losing) 20+ years ago.
- rowanG077 3y ago
  Wow! I looked him up and he was already a competitive player at 10 years old? That's pretty insane.
  - spaceman_2020 3y ago
    I must've been around 12 myself. This game has been a part of my life since before puberty. I ascribe part of my deep love for history to this game.
    - baremetal 3y ago
      I played the original Age of Empires when I was really young, I liked it so much I built my first website ever on geocities about that game. I loved AoE 2 when it came out too. And yeah I loved the history immersion
- egeozcan 3y ago
  Don't remember playing against Viper but DauT had nearly made me smash my keyboard in a team game because I was sure he was cheating hehehe (and I was a teenager with a giant ego).

by kayson 3y ago

biohax2015 3y ago

Tetris on the NES still has massive tournaments. It’s pretty interesting to watch these super-young games (relative to chess, tennis, etc.) mature and develop as genuine fields of competition.

hot_gril 3y ago

The even crazier thing is card or board games that are still alive and modernized. Some games are timeless.

eru 3y ago
Many of the best board games are less than twenty years old. Cardboard based entertainment has made huge strides recently. By and large, good boardgames are not so much timeless as 'fairly new' instead. There have been a few good games earlier, but it's really instructive to have a look at the ranked list of boardgames at https://boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame https://boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame and check the publication dates.
- fbdab103 3y ago
  One problem I have with the rankings here is they seem really prone to grade inflation and band-wagoning. Even more-so when the game is expensive.
  - eru 3y ago
    Yes. And they are also just aggregates of what people think. They aren't God given absolute quality judgements. Yet, even with all the caveats, it's still remarkable how much better boardgames have gotten.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > They aren't God given absolute quality judgements. This seems a bit of a high bar to make only one review site have to clear.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    The BGG rankings are a particular viewpoint into a general take on board games; the way I look at it - anything high ranked is going to be "good" even if I don't particular like the play style, theme, or execution. Many are "good but not for me". The problem with the rankings is that some very playable games are ranked low. It's a meme on BGG but CandyLand is famously shit on: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5048/candy-land https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5048/candy-land - but it's a perfectly acceptable "game" for very young children, and if you've ever dealt with said children you know that getting them to successfully complete a CandyLand session without going backwards on the track, randomly wandering off, taking multiple cards, etc is a serious feat. It's not a great game but it's certainly still playable in the niche it occupies.
    - eru 3y ago
      Candyland might be an ok game for young children, but there are certainly better games for that niche, too. Just like Risk can be an entertaining game, but it's far from the most entertaining game you could play during that time.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      Yeah, I've heard of very few of the top ones, and they look like the super complex kind of games I don't play. I did play Pandemic Legacy and didn't like it. Then I cmd+F'd for Diplomacy, Catan, and chess on the top list, didn't see them, and said nah.
      - eru 3y ago
        Catan isn't actually all that great (and I say that as someone who bought his set back in 1995). We have much better games these days. Stripped of its cultural significance, chess isn't that great either for a general audience. It suffers from analysis paralysis. I would only recommend it to a niche audience. I love Diplomacy; I played many games over email, in person and even participated in the German Diplomacy championship (face-to-face) back in the 2000s. Yet, it's also a very niche game, and I can see why some people would rate it low. I actually prefer the game over email, because it gives you more time to think, sending emails resembles the telegraphs of the early 20th century and I am less likely to burn out from a months long game with one move every few days than one very intense day of face-to-face play. Btw, if you like Diplomacy, I recommend playing on the 1900 map variant. It's basically an improved version of the standard map. See http://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Online/variants/1900-GG.pdf http://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Online/variants/1900-GG.pdf Or for further reading https://diplomacygames.com/baron-von-powell-creator-of-1900/ https://diplomacygames.com/baron-von-powell-creator-of-1900/ or http://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Zine/F2007M/Roburn/1900.htm http://uk.diplom.org/pouch/Zine/F2007M/Roburn/1900.htm
- stOneskull 3y ago
  wow, i had no idea there were so many boardgames.. i looked to see where my old favorite Talisman was and it's ranked #1764! jeez..
  - eru 3y ago
    That's actually pretty high.

bombcar 3y ago

Heroes III has something similar, with major mods being developed along with entirely new "replacement" game engines.

EamonnMR 3y ago

The staying power makes me feel kind of sad, because it represents a lack of vitality... they've cleared the local space, like some sort of planetoid, and newcomers have little chance.

Dalewyn 3y ago
The Real Time Strategy (RTS) genre more or less died in the mid 2000s with Age of Empires II, Warcraft 3, and Starcraft being the ones that left a mark. Since that time: Warcraft 3 died; Starcraft was supplanted by Starcraft 2 and both eventually died outside of the lucrative Korean pro scene. Age of Empires II also died until it saw a resurrection in the pro scene in the early 2010s which has lasted to today. The RTS genre itself is still very much dead, seeing no new games worthy of note to this day.
- yenda 3y ago
  I loved empire earth II as well
- r0uv3n 3y ago
  There is the free and open source Beyond All Reason (BAR) inspired by Total Annihilation, which is very polished and a lot of fun. It's got features I've not seen anywhere else yet (in terms of possibilities for commands and customisation) and also has a growing competitive scene. It's worth checking out
- JSavageOne 3y ago
  Which is a damn shame because RTS games are my favorite genre, with Age of Empires 2 and Warcraft 3 being my favorite games of all time. It's really a shame to me that the most popular multiplayer games these days seem to be FPS games, or games where you just control a single character. Don't get me wrong those games can still be fun, but they entail a fraction of the strategy as RTS games. I hope one day we'll see a resurgence of the RTS genre.
- rasz 3y ago
  'Beyond All Reason' regularly ranks second place behind SC2 on Twitch.

spaceman_2020 3y ago

The crazy part is that some of the players who dominated the multiplayer scene in 2000 are still playing…and dominating. TheViper regularly streams his matches. Surreal watching them cause I remember playing against him (and losing) 20+ years ago.

rowanG077 3y ago
Wow! I looked him up and he was already a competitive player at 10 years old? That's pretty insane.
- spaceman_2020 3y ago
  I must've been around 12 myself. This game has been a part of my life since before puberty. I ascribe part of my deep love for history to this game.
  - baremetal 3y ago
    I played the original Age of Empires when I was really young, I liked it so much I built my first website ever on geocities about that game. I loved AoE 2 when it came out too. And yeah I loved the history immersion
egeozcan 3y ago
Don't remember playing against Viper but DauT had nearly made me smash my keyboard in a team game because I was sure he was cheating hehehe (and I was a teenager with a giant ego).