6 ms·

I've posted this before, but it's worth repeating. I recently discovered that I’m a slow metabolizer of caffeine. Via my raw 23andme data. https://you.23andme.

by aantix 3y ago

I've posted this before, but it's worth repeating. I recently discovered that I’m a slow metabolizer of caffeine. Via my raw 23andme data. https://you.23andme.com/tools/data/?query=rs762551 https://you.23andme.com/tools/data/?query=rs762551 C/C genotype. https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/liver-detox-genes-cyp1a2/#C https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/liver-detox-genes-cyp1a2/#C... Instead of coffee being a net positive, it actually takes caffeine 4X the time to process through my body. It also increases my cardiac event risk (most normal metabolizers it does not). I can drink a cup of coffee at 8am and it still impacts my sleep the following night. My blood pressure remains really elevated (20+ points for systolic) the entire day. All these decades I’ve been ingesting coffee thinking it’s a “net positive” - not for my genotype. When the reality is I sleep like shit, my blood pressure is through the roof, I feel awful for a day or two of drinking a single cup, and it all makes sense now. Even with just 30mg ingested this morning at 8am, I still feel very wide awake at 9pm. When I totally detox from caffeine, go through the headaches, I ultimately feel calmer, and I get the best, deepest sleep.

mbrochh 3y ago
Same here. I've quit coffee about 15 times in the last 10 years. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME, the result is the same: high blood pressure, bad sleep, constant lethargy (which can only be fixed by consuming more coffee), frequent headaches... all goes away after one week of detox.
paulrouget 3y ago
Is that the rs4410790 marker ?
- aantix 3y ago
  rs762551
someotherperson 3y ago
Totally anecdotal, but have you tried coupling it with L-Theanine? I've become extremely caffeine sensitive over the last few years -- anything more than about 80mg has me off the walls for the entire day. But ensuring I get L-Theanine along with it essentially blunts the response quite significantly and allows me to function normally.
- hackernewds 3y ago
  why not just stop drinking caffeine, or drink less?
  - someotherperson 3y ago
    I did both. I take L-Theanine just in case since it's hard to approximate how much caffeine will be in a coffee.
- brigandish 3y ago
  Tea contains L-Theanine, you can simply switch if you still want the caffeine.
  - agos 3y ago
    huh, that might explain why I've always found coffee "too much" for me, but never had significant problems with tea
thrtythreeforty 3y ago
Is there a way I can get this kind of analysis done and retain control of all the data that gets created? I have been interested in learning details about my genotype for a while, but not at the expense of having 23andMe keep a copy for whatever purpose they desire now or in the future.
- akiselev 3y ago
  Talk to your doctor. Genetic tests ordered via your physician may be covered by patient privacy laws in ways that 23andme customers aren’t. Read the fine print though because you get what you pay for.
  - hackernewds 3y ago
    you will not get the richness of detail that 23andme provides though, since the results are mostly based off training data from other submissions to 23andme. Which is why it gets better over time; I was shown to be 20% Chinese, but now 4 years later my profile there reads that I'm completely Korean
    - brigandish 3y ago
      Knowing your geographical ancestry - which, to me, seems slightly ridiculous, versus knowing some genetic predisposition for disease or problems like the one discussed above with caffeine or, say, ibuprofen, don't seem to be comparable in the slightest.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
      Their ancestry data is known to be quite dubious. They're really just guessing for the most part.
    - alfiedotwtf 3y ago
      > I was shown to be 20% Chinese, but now 4 years later my profile there reads that I'm completely Korean > you will not get the richness of detail that 23andme provides though That richness you describe almost seems to be fabricated "vanity metrics" rather than anything useful
Danjoe4 3y ago
While we're at it, here's an assessment of many drugs significantly affected by your CYP1a2 genotype: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1742-7843.2005.pto_973160.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1742-7843... I'd recommend checking out your CYP2D6 too. Proper recommendations haven't yet reached the clinic, so if you want personalized medicine then you'll have to educate yourself. Caveat, for dozens of reasons, differing genotypes won't necessarily affect drug pharmacokinetics, even if the metabolic pathway suggests it should. Liver enzymes are cool.
- joecool1029 3y ago
  > I'd recommend checking out your CYP2D6 too. I have the nonfunctional genotype: Some effects. I can't metabolize codeine into its active drug, so it's just a trash useless drug to me that was prescribed a few times in the past to no effect. Additionally, DXM cough meds stays with me a crazy long time so I have to increase dosage interval else I get high off it. No doubt affects other common medications. There is a test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmpliChip_CYP450_Test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmpliChip_CYP450_Test if anyone knows more the Wikipedia page needs updating. Maybe there's more tests now. Just seems crazy none of these tests seem to be routine yet to keep in patient file. This is not 'new' stuff anymore.
  - aantix 3y ago
    >Proper recommendations haven't yet reached the clinic Completely agree. I've seen four cardiologists, two nephrologists in my years of dealing with high blood pressure. They basically just mix and match different BP drugs, hoping something works. It's out of the stone age.
arikrak 3y ago
Very interesting! I generally avoid coffee after the morning since I know I'm sensitive to it, but your link points to the specific gene I have that causes it. I wonder if I should reduce my caffeine intake even in the morning. Is there a good way to find out other relevant genes without uploading my 23andMe data to unknown websites?
- aantix 3y ago
  Get your DNA sequenced with Nebula. They seem to be pretty committed to privacy. https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/ https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/
bawolff 3y ago
Why would coffee be a net positive, even in general without any genetic mutations?
- thecopy 3y ago
  CGP Grey: Coffee: The Greatest Addiction Ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg
nabla9 3y ago
It's good to try different things. Try a month without caffeine, alcohol or other stimulants for a month to find a baseline. Then you can find what's good for you. I have a friend psychiatrist who told that she had given the standard first question and advice for over decade for sleep problems: "How much you drink caffeinated beverages? Maybe you should drink less" before she took the advice herself. She was amazed how well she slept without caffeine even when she didn't think she had sleeping problems or difficulties. She just didn't remember what it was to sleep really well anymore.
Mistletoe 3y ago
Hmmm maybe time for me to activate that health portion of my 23andme. I thought it was just silly stuff included but stuff like this would be interesting and useful.
dmaspataud 3y ago
I just checked, and I'm C/C too, but I don't have the same experience: I can drink a coffee after diner and still fall sleep easily. It could be that it's more complex than a toggle on/off, and more like a polygenic trait.
- freilanzer 3y ago
  Sleep quality might still be affected.
- andy_ppp 3y ago
  How old are you? Caffeine has affected me much more strongly as I’ve aged to the point where I just do freshly ground decaf now. Some of the methods to remove caffeine don’t completely ruin the flavour these days so if you love coffee it can be worth trying…
  - dmaspataud 3y ago
    mid 30
- aantix 3y ago
  It's not just about time-to-sleep, it's about sleep quality. My only suggestion would be to fully go off of caffeine and rate your sleep quality off of caffeine. I went years of drinking caffeine. So much so, that I had forgotten what deep sleep really felt like until finally removing caffeine from my daily routine. It's a massive difference in sleep quality. With caffeine, the sleep is superficial. I get up to urinate a lot more. Lighter sounds can wake me up. Without caffeine, I find myself sleeping so deeply, that my body stays in the same position, and I can wake up to tension in certain areas because I haven't moved for hours. The deep sleep feels amazing.
aantix 3y ago
Another interesting side not to this. Of the times that I have lost significant weight, both have been times when I quit caffeine completely. I understand - it's hard to tease out whether it was the caffeine impeding the weight loss I get it. It could be just as simple as I sleep better without caffeine and the better sleep quality improves hormonal balance, satiety, etc.
D13Fd 3y ago
I haven't been tested but I read about this, and I think I may have something similar. One cup of cold-brew coffee and I'm good for the day. I don't start getting caffeine withdrawal symptoms (headache etc.) until mid-day the next day. I used to drink caffeinated soda throughout the day, quitting around 5 hours before bedtime, and I had constant sleep issues. I stopped that around 10 years ago and switched to my one-cup-per-day system. Now I sleep fine.

by aantix 3y ago

mbrochh 3y ago

Same here. I've quit coffee about 15 times in the last 10 years. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME, the result is the same: high blood pressure, bad sleep, constant lethargy (which can only be fixed by consuming more coffee), frequent headaches... all goes away after one week of detox.

paulrouget 3y ago

Is that the rs4410790 marker ?

aantix 3y ago
rs762551

someotherperson 3y ago

Totally anecdotal, but have you tried coupling it with L-Theanine? I've become extremely caffeine sensitive over the last few years -- anything more than about 80mg has me off the walls for the entire day. But ensuring I get L-Theanine along with it essentially blunts the response quite significantly and allows me to function normally.

hackernewds 3y ago
why not just stop drinking caffeine, or drink less?
- someotherperson 3y ago
  I did both. I take L-Theanine just in case since it's hard to approximate how much caffeine will be in a coffee.
brigandish 3y ago
Tea contains L-Theanine, you can simply switch if you still want the caffeine.
- agos 3y ago
  huh, that might explain why I've always found coffee "too much" for me, but never had significant problems with tea

thrtythreeforty 3y ago

Is there a way I can get this kind of analysis done and retain control of all the data that gets created? I have been interested in learning details about my genotype for a while, but not at the expense of having 23andMe keep a copy for whatever purpose they desire now or in the future.

akiselev 3y ago
Talk to your doctor. Genetic tests ordered via your physician may be covered by patient privacy laws in ways that 23andme customers aren’t. Read the fine print though because you get what you pay for.
- hackernewds 3y ago
  you will not get the richness of detail that 23andme provides though, since the results are mostly based off training data from other submissions to 23andme. Which is why it gets better over time; I was shown to be 20% Chinese, but now 4 years later my profile there reads that I'm completely Korean
  - brigandish 3y ago
    Knowing your geographical ancestry - which, to me, seems slightly ridiculous, versus knowing some genetic predisposition for disease or problems like the one discussed above with caffeine or, say, ibuprofen, don't seem to be comparable in the slightest.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    Their ancestry data is known to be quite dubious. They're really just guessing for the most part.
  - alfiedotwtf 3y ago
    > I was shown to be 20% Chinese, but now 4 years later my profile there reads that I'm completely Korean > you will not get the richness of detail that 23andme provides though That richness you describe almost seems to be fabricated "vanity metrics" rather than anything useful

Danjoe4 3y ago

While we're at it, here's an assessment of many drugs significantly affected by your CYP1a2 genotype: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1742-7843.2005.pto_973160.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1742-7843... I'd recommend checking out your CYP2D6 too. Proper recommendations haven't yet reached the clinic, so if you want personalized medicine then you'll have to educate yourself. Caveat, for dozens of reasons, differing genotypes won't necessarily affect drug pharmacokinetics, even if the metabolic pathway suggests it should. Liver enzymes are cool.

joecool1029 3y ago
> I'd recommend checking out your CYP2D6 too. I have the nonfunctional genotype: Some effects. I can't metabolize codeine into its active drug, so it's just a trash useless drug to me that was prescribed a few times in the past to no effect. Additionally, DXM cough meds stays with me a crazy long time so I have to increase dosage interval else I get high off it. No doubt affects other common medications. There is a test: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmpliChip_CYP450_Test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmpliChip_CYP450_Test if anyone knows more the Wikipedia page needs updating. Maybe there's more tests now. Just seems crazy none of these tests seem to be routine yet to keep in patient file. This is not 'new' stuff anymore.
- aantix 3y ago
  >Proper recommendations haven't yet reached the clinic Completely agree. I've seen four cardiologists, two nephrologists in my years of dealing with high blood pressure. They basically just mix and match different BP drugs, hoping something works. It's out of the stone age.

arikrak 3y ago

Very interesting! I generally avoid coffee after the morning since I know I'm sensitive to it, but your link points to the specific gene I have that causes it. I wonder if I should reduce my caffeine intake even in the morning. Is there a good way to find out other relevant genes without uploading my 23andMe data to unknown websites?

aantix 3y ago
Get your DNA sequenced with Nebula. They seem to be pretty committed to privacy. https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/ https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

bawolff 3y ago

Why would coffee be a net positive, even in general without any genetic mutations?

thecopy 3y ago
CGP Grey: Coffee: The Greatest Addiction Ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg

nabla9 3y ago

It's good to try different things. Try a month without caffeine, alcohol or other stimulants for a month to find a baseline. Then you can find what's good for you. I have a friend psychiatrist who told that she had given the standard first question and advice for over decade for sleep problems: "How much you drink caffeinated beverages? Maybe you should drink less" before she took the advice herself. She was amazed how well she slept without caffeine even when she didn't think she had sleeping problems or difficulties. She just didn't remember what it was to sleep really well anymore.

Mistletoe 3y ago

Hmmm maybe time for me to activate that health portion of my 23andme. I thought it was just silly stuff included but stuff like this would be interesting and useful.

dmaspataud 3y ago

I just checked, and I'm C/C too, but I don't have the same experience: I can drink a coffee after diner and still fall sleep easily. It could be that it's more complex than a toggle on/off, and more like a polygenic trait.

freilanzer 3y ago
Sleep quality might still be affected.
andy_ppp 3y ago
How old are you? Caffeine has affected me much more strongly as I’ve aged to the point where I just do freshly ground decaf now. Some of the methods to remove caffeine don’t completely ruin the flavour these days so if you love coffee it can be worth trying…
- dmaspataud 3y ago
  mid 30
aantix 3y ago
It's not just about time-to-sleep, it's about sleep quality. My only suggestion would be to fully go off of caffeine and rate your sleep quality off of caffeine. I went years of drinking caffeine. So much so, that I had forgotten what deep sleep really felt like until finally removing caffeine from my daily routine. It's a massive difference in sleep quality. With caffeine, the sleep is superficial. I get up to urinate a lot more. Lighter sounds can wake me up. Without caffeine, I find myself sleeping so deeply, that my body stays in the same position, and I can wake up to tension in certain areas because I haven't moved for hours. The deep sleep feels amazing.

aantix 3y ago

Another interesting side not to this. Of the times that I have lost significant weight, both have been times when I quit caffeine completely. I understand - it's hard to tease out whether it was the caffeine impeding the weight loss I get it. It could be just as simple as I sleep better without caffeine and the better sleep quality improves hormonal balance, satiety, etc.

D13Fd 3y ago

I haven't been tested but I read about this, and I think I may have something similar. One cup of cold-brew coffee and I'm good for the day. I don't start getting caffeine withdrawal symptoms (headache etc.) until mid-day the next day. I used to drink caffeinated soda throughout the day, quitting around 5 hours before bedtime, and I had constant sleep issues. I stopped that around 10 years ago and switched to my one-cup-per-day system. Now I sleep fine.