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But how do i know my sleep quality?
by bicijay 3y ago
But how do i know my sleep quality?
- slater 3y agoUse a smartwatch, or ask your doc to have a sleep study done
- Spivak 3y agoYou can also get a less accurate but potentially still useful reading with only the phone in some apps. You'll get false negatives because it can only really measure movement but if it says your sleep is shit it probably is.
- schaefer 3y agoColor me septal… Can you cite a medical study that evaluates the accuracy of your smart watch’s assessment of your quality of sleep? Preferably one not sponsored by the manufacturer?
- cypherpunks01 3y ago"Performance of seven consumer sleep-tracking devices compared with polysomnography" Sleep. 2021 May PMC8120339 Seems to accurately analyze them. Conclusion "Device sleep stage assessments were inconsistent." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8120339/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8120339/ This research was funded by the Office of Naval Research, Code 34. (see also Disclosure Statement)
- edandersen 3y agoFrom the study: "Most devices (Fatigue Science Readiband, Fitbit Alta HR, EarlySense Live, ResMed S+, SleepScore Max) performed as well as or better than actigraphy on sleep/wake performance measures". Great news.
- cypherpunks01 3y agoYes, the study evaluates the accuracy, and the results are not good!
- crossroadsguy 3y agoThe Garmin one is discontinued. Also, is there a more "layman readable" version of this paper/report?
- tallanvor 3y agoThe Garmin watches have been replaced by newer versions with upgraded sensors. Garmin's tracking isn't perfect, but each version has made small improvements.
- sollewitt 3y agoYour skepticism is justified. Oura publish their data, and to quote them: >Oura ring was 96% accurate in detecting sleep compared to polysomnography, 48% accurate in detecting wakefulness, 65% agreement in detecting “light sleep,” 51% agreement in detecting “deep sleep” and 61% agreement in detecting REM So it's basically wrong with sleep categorization about half the time.
- hackernewds 3y agooura ring hardware is horribly limited in terms of precision. let it not be a barrier to invest in a good wrist/arm/head band
- sedatk 3y agoGarmin publishes their accuracy data: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/health/garmin-health-announces-sleep-study-results/ https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/health/garmin-health-annou...
- ryanfreeborn 3y agoMany have already pointed that there have been studies to measure the accuracy of sleep analysis by wearables. They aren't that great. If you have a concern, you should definitely seek out a polysomnograph, and wearables should not be a replacement for that. However, you can't get a polysomnograph every night, and wearables are probably the best option for regular analysis. Just because they're not that great doesn't mean they're useless, and doesn't mean they won't improve.
- hackernewds 3y agothey can be https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8120339/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8120339/ Most devices (Fatigue Science Readiband, Fitbit Alta HR, EarlySense Live, ResMed S+, SleepScore Max) performed as well as or better than actigraphy on sleep/wake performance measures, while the Garmin devices performed worse.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- crossroadsguy 3y agoIs there something I can just keep next to my pillow? Or something like that? I don't like wearing (and don't wear) watches or any kind of bands/rings/etc at all - they feel like a constant weight and then there's sweat, and pressure, and all that.
- zackangelo 3y agoThe Eight mattress will measure sleep stages without you having to wear anything.
- jetanoia 3y agoMy experience with them is mixed. I’ve had a couple of theirs and they’ve been markedly inaccurate in some categories. For example, reporting I was not in bed when I actually was, or vice verse on other nights. As a result, the sleep hours were off. I still love it for the temperature control (set to manual, not their ‘auto’ algorithms), but if it can’t reliably report something as simple as whether I’m in or out of bed, then accurately judging sleep stages should be even less likely. My oura ring has been far more helpful in identifying patterns leading to less quality sleep. For example , by highlighting elevated resting heart rates and asking me if I ate later that night, consumed spicy foods or alcohol, etc. That said, it’s not terribly durable. After a couple years it refused to accept firmware updates. Then a few weeks ago (after maybe 3 years of use) it stopped connecting to the app altogether and support tickets are going unanswered. This is greatly disappointing but I may spring for a replacement anyway because of how helpful it’s been in correlating lifestyle choices to sleep parameters (& quite consistently so).
- ajolly 3y agoAgreed on preferring my oura vs my eight bed for sleep tracking. Just found out that their web interface gives you a lot more analytic tools than the app, check that out if you have not already.
- pnw 3y agoBefore Apple bought them and discontinued the product last year, the Beddit sleep monitor was the best option for me. I’ve had mine for years and use it religiously. It’s a small sensor that goes on your mattress. You may be able to find one still for sale. It’s far more practical than wearing an Apple Watch to bed.
- senectus1 3y agoheh, I recently got a GW4. it's telling me that i get approx 22 mins a night of "Deep sleep" (average of 7 hours total asleep) this sounds like i'm screwed...
- ChrisPebble 3y agoA sleep study is the gold standard, but sleep trackers like Oura reportedly getting pretty good and a lot cheaper and easier.
- alwayslikethis 3y agoYou need at least an EEG to have even a remote chance of getting good data. No smartwatches or rings will do the trick. Zeo was a good one, but discontinued 10 years back. https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Consumer-Sleep-Tracking-Devices%3A-A-Critical-Review-Lee-Finkelstein/a18d14fbc724c2dfe982fa4b44fbae1d5948c68b?p2df https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Consumer-Sleep-Trackin...
- dude01 3y agoMy son just had one, and they said they found nothing. But looking around, apparently most sleep studies in USA just look for sleep apnea. By default they don't actually look for anything else.
- frankfrankfrank 3y agoTry the Sleep Cycle app, at least on iOS. It’s an orange icon with an old analoge, bell alarm clock image.
- deadmutex 3y agoIf you don't want to have to worry about charging things, or wearing them to bed, Google Nest Hub is great: https://store.google.com/us/product/nest_hub_sleep_sensing?hl=en-US https://store.google.com/us/product/nest_hub_sleep_sensing?h... . It can also track sleep stages, etc. This has been on sale for < $75, which is way less than a wearable, etc. https://ai.googleblog.com/2021/03/contactless-sleep-sensing-in-nest-hub.html https://ai.googleblog.com/2021/03/contactless-sleep-sensing-... https://ai.googleblog.com/2021/11/enhanced-sleep-sensing-in-nest-hub.html https://ai.googleblog.com/2021/11/enhanced-sleep-sensing-in-...
- cactusplant7374 3y agoDoes this work if you are sleeping in bed with a partner?
- deadmutex 3y agoYes. It can even tell you when you're snoring (instead of your partner).
- hackernewds 3y agoSkeptical it can glean all of that without EEG, let alone without heart rate.
- deadmutex 3y agoCheck out some details in the second blog link. Of course a sleep clinic with a lot of sensors will give you much better results. The analogy would be a massage chair vs masseuse. Different price/convenience tradeoffs.
- the_third_wave 3y agoHeart rate can be discerned remotely using infrared cameras [1] so that would be doable. [1] https://www.thinkmind.org/articles/smart_2017_2_20_48002.pdf https://www.thinkmind.org/articles/smart_2017_2_20_48002.pdf
- jasondigitized 3y agoEven if I determine my sleep quality…then what? If it’s bad, and I am eating healthy, workout and don’t have apnea what am I supposed to do with this information?
- coldtea 3y agoThere are a lot more things to check/do besides "eating healthy, workout and not having apnea". For example, the times when you eat matter (even if you eat healthy to begin with). The light levels matter - is your bedroom pitch dark? Noise levels matter. Temperatures matter a lot. Things like sleep position could play a role. Pets sleeping with you waking you up at night. And several other things besides. Or you might have a condition that prevents you from sleeping well, even if it's not apnea. Might be stress. Or something that needs medical treatment, or a vitamin deficiency. You might also need supplements such as melatonin.
- bonniemuffin 3y agoYou could try different combinations of beds, pillows, blankets, white noise, blackout curtains-- there are lots of different ways to adjust your sleep environment to do a bit of trial-and-error to find out what helps. I found that I sleep best with blackout, loud white noise, a very soft pillow under my head, and a firm pillow beside my legs so I can sleep on my back with one leg bent and resting on the leg pillow. The bent leg thing is not something I've ever heard of anyone else doing. I just had to figure it out by trying a ton of different ways of arranging my limbs in bed-- previously I had really struggled with hip pain during the night no matter how I slept.
- deadmutex 3y agoalso ambient temperature, etc.
- spoonfeeder006 3y agoand sunlight during the day, darkness during the night (or filtering out blue light with glasses / apps)
- hitsurume 3y agoMy personal theory / opinion in how I know I slept deeply is whether I had a dream that felt like a fairly long period. There was a point in my life where I literally had no dreams and slept like I was passing out. I realized that this was greatly affecting my long term memory. I went and made incremental steps in getting my sleep better and thankfully was able to start dreaming again, and even got to some points where my dreams became lucid, like being in inception. Anyways that's just my personal indicator on whether ive been sleeping deeply.
- spoonfeeder006 3y agoYou're talking about REM sleep, not deep sleep. The article is talking about (I believe) the N3 stage of non-rem sleep, which is when the surrounding space around cerebral arteries expand and cerebral spinal fluid outside those arteries with flush out toxins During this stage of sleep, neurons also fire in unison at a slow frequency on the order of 1Hz I don't think that happens in REM sleep, which actually looks more like wakefullness than the N3 stage, but with certain aspects of cognition shut off (like the rational part, and the motor activation part)
- hitsurume 3y agoThanks for pointing this out! This definitely makes. me wonder if there's a way for us to tell whether we had adequete deep sleep without using an app or some external machine. My points about REM/Dreaming was that I could notice these things naturally without aid.
- hackernewds 3y agoget a minimal activity monitor, without any "smart" functions. you can get ones that charge for 15m every 5 days now. (trying not to promote a particular product)
- spoonfeeder006 3y agoIt might be possible to get that indirectly through cognitive tests taken throughout a person's life and see how they progress Sleep quality deteriorates rapidly after age 45, at least from what I was told by the Dreem2 tech support a while ago. My understanding is this involves the amplitude of brain waves during primarily the N3 stage, while physical exercise has been shown to enhance that amplitude, e.g. walking 3 miles a day The Dreem2 headband does have the ability to enhance the amplitude and duration of N3 brain waves also, by using timed pulses of pink noise in a feedback loop Though I don't think that feature was available to consumers inside the USA cuz of FDA regulation BS
- spoonfeeder006 3y agoThere's the Dreem2 headband, but I don't think its available to consumers in the USA anymore. Maybe it is in other countries Its basically a reusable EEG device connected to your phone, aka a sleep study every night, but maybe slightly lower quality I'm sure with persistence and ingenuity there should be a way to get it
- psiops 3y agoI'm happy with my Oura ring. Apparently its sleep analysis is on par with gold standard polysomnography (PSG) sleep lab test. https://ouraring.com/blog/new-sleep-staging-algorithm/ https://ouraring.com/blog/new-sleep-staging-algorithm/
- CastFX 3y agoIndependent studies show that it's among the best but not quite on par with medical grade devices. I suggest to have a look at this channel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m_oBiYk8Rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m_oBiYk8Rk
- GvS 3y agoOver 300 EUR and a subscription on top of that?!
- criddell 3y agoHow does that compare to the cost of a PSG test? Where I live a sleep lab test is pretty expensive so the Oura is an absolute bargain.
- _joel 3y agoMy fitbit tracks it well, cheap thing I've had for years.