5 ms·

Thats the thing I don't get about countries turning to China. America does things for itself but also does things just to advance democracy. China's only intere

Thats the thing I don't get about countries turning to China. America does things for itself but also does things just to advance democracy. China's only interest is China. If your choice is a semi-friendly loan shark or a smash your kneecaps loan shark, I have no idea why countries are choosing the latter.

NovaDudely 3y ago
Maybe they provide a better initial deal? No idea. But people can be blinded by better initial conditions even if long term it is worse.
coldtea 3y ago
>but also does things just to advance democracy Or so it self-advetises. "Advancing democracy" originated as an anti-communist theme, in the Cold war era fight for global influence, and after 1991 it turned into a hammer to yield against mostly Arab countries and others with resources and/or independent foreign policy. This democracy advancing didn't have issues sponsoring and supporting dictatorships (say, Pinochet in the 70s and Saddam in the 80s to name but a few), or being best buddies with a family that owns a whole country non-democratically and are known for huge human rights abuses (buddies until recently at least). In the last 20 years alone, it has turned 4 countries into much worse than they were.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Exactly. The democracy advanced always exactly matches the current US interests. Funny that. We’re just so damn perfect we never ever ever get anything wrong.
  - 49erfangoniners 3y ago
    OP compared the US to a loan shark, you're arguing against a strawman
    - cced 3y ago
      You realise that institutions like the IMF and World Bank do exactly that? What exactly do you think happens to third world countries that can’t pay back IMF and World Bank loans? They get to walk off scott free? Here’s a hint: neoliberalisation gets introduced into the country and its assets get taken and privatized by western corporations.
rasz 3y ago
The answer is you pick the one doing whole red carpet royal treatment. Gyude Moore: “China in Africa: An African Perspective” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5uzxV8ub9k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5uzxV8ub9k (Author has BS in Political Science from Berea College and an MS in Foreign Service from Georgetown University.)
c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
The semi-friendly loan shark doesn't pay you personal bribes. The kneecap shark pays you bribes to take loans on behalf of your country which you aren't personally on the hook for. By the time the bill comes due, you've got enough money to catch a private jet off into the sunset. It's elite capture 101.
placidus2684 3y ago
[flagged]
isitmadeofglass 3y ago
[dead]

NovaDudely 3y ago

Maybe they provide a better initial deal? No idea. But people can be blinded by better initial conditions even if long term it is worse.

coldtea 3y ago

>but also does things just to advance democracy Or so it self-advetises. "Advancing democracy" originated as an anti-communist theme, in the Cold war era fight for global influence, and after 1991 it turned into a hammer to yield against mostly Arab countries and others with resources and/or independent foreign policy. This democracy advancing didn't have issues sponsoring and supporting dictatorships (say, Pinochet in the 70s and Saddam in the 80s to name but a few), or being best buddies with a family that owns a whole country non-democratically and are known for huge human rights abuses (buddies until recently at least). In the last 20 years alone, it has turned 4 countries into much worse than they were.

bombcar 3y ago
Exactly. The democracy advanced always exactly matches the current US interests. Funny that. We’re just so damn perfect we never ever ever get anything wrong.
- 49erfangoniners 3y ago
  OP compared the US to a loan shark, you're arguing against a strawman
  - cced 3y ago
    You realise that institutions like the IMF and World Bank do exactly that? What exactly do you think happens to third world countries that can’t pay back IMF and World Bank loans? They get to walk off scott free? Here’s a hint: neoliberalisation gets introduced into the country and its assets get taken and privatized by western corporations.

rasz 3y ago

The answer is you pick the one doing whole red carpet royal treatment. Gyude Moore: “China in Africa: An African Perspective” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5uzxV8ub9k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5uzxV8ub9k (Author has BS in Political Science from Berea College and an MS in Foreign Service from Georgetown University.)

c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago

The semi-friendly loan shark doesn't pay you personal bribes. The kneecap shark pays you bribes to take loans on behalf of your country which you aren't personally on the hook for. By the time the bill comes due, you've got enough money to catch a private jet off into the sunset. It's elite capture 101.

placidus2684 3y ago

[flagged]

isitmadeofglass 3y ago

[dead]